I launch auto plants for a living, we can build a plant and have it producing cars in less time than Beretta is taking with this new plant. This is just nuts at this point.

The new Berettas are total vaporware around here.

Nuh uh. I heard from a gunshop that another gunshop got a real live M9A3. As far as I am concerned it might as well have been delivered by a chupacabra since I have seen just as many of those in the TN area.

All I have heard from a couple folks who were in a place to know and got to handle pre production apx pistols some time back is they are really having QC issues and a lot of pistols are not making the cut so to speak.

I can't help but think that government regulators may have had a hand in delaying the project.

Of course, this is pure conjecture, but as I remember, the Obama administration was not very friendly towards the firearms industry. (Other than driving up sales.)

I'd rather get them right than fast.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
I'd rather get them right than fast.

This.

"I'd rather get them right than fast."

Yup. This market will punish the hell out of the next bunch of greedy idiots who try to launch another R51.

quote:

Originally posted by CAR:

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
I'd rather get them right than fast.

This.

Exactly this. The finish work on the early Tennessee M9A3s is dodgy at best. The last one I came across a couple of months ago at a competitor's shop still had issues with exposed bare alloy on exterior surfaces. Beretta knows that they need to get their plant in order if they're going to avoid the inevitable wrath of an irate internet, especially given the price that these guns are sold at. Hopefully these problems are merely related to finishing and aesthetics (which is bad enough) and not a sign of any deeper manufacturing concerns that extend into the function and operation that affect reliability, either now or down the road.

Not to mention that having lost the government contract to SIG, they have to make sure it's as close to perfect as possible as civilian sales are their lifeblood, and they don't have the "well the military uses it" marketing strategy anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by xwesler:
Not to mention that having lost the government contract to SIG, they have to make sure it's as close to perfect as possible as civilian sales are their lifeblood, and they don't have the "well the military uses it" marketing strategy anymore.

Ummm yeah they do. SIG got the ARMY contact. I'm sure that the Marines are still considered to be the military. It is questionable if the other two are.

Glock protested so that won't get sorted for a bit.

The new plant testing issues for Beretta is related to new employees coming online in TN. I don't think many of the MD employees wanted to make the move with so many Gov contracting jobs around in MD (Pax River, Dahlgren plus normal military bases)

I just rented M9a3 with a suppressor on it last night at the range and I want one badly. The double action was really light and smooth. The new grip size works nice for me too

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by xwesler:
Not to mention that having lost the government contract to SIG, they have to make sure it's as close to perfect as possible as civilian sales are their lifeblood, and they don't have the "well the military uses it" marketing strategy anymore.

Ummm yeah they do. SIG got the ARMY contact. I'm sure that the Marines are still considered to be the military. It is questionable if the other two are.

Generally no one stays unique in the sidearm department. The Marines have been looking at replacements as well, as have said they very well may adopt the P320 to follow suit. If/when that happens, the other branches will likely follow suit, same as ended up happening with the M9.

Losing the Army contract pretty much signals that. Even IF the Marines, Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard decide to go a completely different route (unlikely), I very much doubt it'll be a Beretta unless they really step up their game.

The Marines want to replace their sidearms by 2020. Doesn't give Beretta a lot of time.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

Ummm yeah they do. SIG got the ARMY contact. I'm sure that the Marines are still considered to be the military. It is questionable if the other two are.

MARSOC has approved the G19, which is also used by various units, and is issued to naval aviators.

All the M9's I've seen overseas (Iraq and Afghanistan inclusive) have been in sad shape.

There's also a bad habit among many to whom the M9's are issued of polishing them down to bare metal.