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Request input from all 7.65 para P220 owners and 9mm BDA owners Login/Join 
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I have been working on an end of year report of discoveries and notes. Since this is January, it's obvious I'm running late.
Because Para inspired me to keep an eye out for P220 Type 2 slides I did discover one in my collection, G 111 475. Proofed in 1978. I also came across a hint that Italian market 7.65s proofed in 1980 may have Type 2 slides regardless of their serial number. Everyone please check. They look just like the common Type 3 slide sides except they have a pinch nose and grooved slide top.
Plus I have a suspicion that all BDAs in 9mm are marked "9mm Luger". Your reports will help me confirm other research sources.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Udo,
 
Posts: 1763 | Location: Middle Tennessee | Registered: January 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
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Udo,

Since you and other P220 aficionados are the experts, can you please explain to us on the periphery the differences among the P220 slide types? Thanks, sir.


Q






 
Posts: 28046 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My 9mm BDA is marked 9 mm Luger. My 45 acp BDA is marked 45 Auto. The 9 has the narrow slide with a groove. the .45 is Flat Topped.
 
Posts: 112 | Location: Deep south | Registered: August 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 112 | Location: Deep south | Registered: August 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 112 | Location: Deep south | Registered: August 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 112 | Location: Deep south | Registered: August 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Udo,

Since you and other P220 aficionados are the experts, can you please explain to us on the periphery the differences among the P220 slide types? Thanks, sir.


quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
All BDA pistols chambered in 9x19mm, .38 Super and 7.65x21mm (this chambering is rare, and for the European market exclusively) have Type 1 slides.

All serial production BDA pistols chambered in .45 ACP, as well as all Hawes-imported P220 pistols chambered in .45 ACP (listed in the Hawes catalog as the Model 745), have Type 3 slides, as seen in the pics above- beveled edges on the slide rear of the ejection port and 12 slide serrations instead of 19 slide serrations.

With respect to BDA pistols in .45 ACP, I have evidence of at least one pre-production example being produced with a slide that does not fit into any of the five categories I listed on this page. I'll get around to showing this to you guys later this evening.

Notice how we've talked about Type 1 and Type 3 slides. Where's the Type 2? I get the impression these transitional slides appeared only on the P75. At least, that's the only place I've ever seen Type 2 slides.

I looked through my research materials and this is all I have in the way of pics of this slide type. In this pic, you see right and left side views of a P75 with a Type 2 slide. In the slides-only portion of this photo, we see a comparison of Types 1 and 2, with the Type 2 slide on the bottom. Very subtle difference. For commercial production P220 pistols, it appears they went from Type 1 directly to Type 3 slides.

The P75 is much like Walther's postwar P38, in the sense that engineering changes made to these pistols were the same for both the respective commercial examples and for the pistols intended for military use. Any change made to the design or to parts were made across both commercial and military production, so one would be lead to believe that there are commercial P220s out there wearing Type 2 slides, but I've never seen one, at least not that I can recall.

 
Posts: 1763 | Location: Middle Tennessee | Registered: January 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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where have i seen this pistol before? Big Grin

The top of the slide on a second Type slide is milled. It does not show the press fold.

They are realatively rare and I only have seen them on Swiss Army pistols and 125year SIG commemorative models. One is shown in Vetter on Page 161.
 
Posts: 3788 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: January 24, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The top of the slide on a second Type slide is milled. It does not show the press fold.

If that is the case with the photo shown, then we may have a case where there are two versions of the Type 2 slides. My two show a change in the side milling but are not milled on top. Working on Photos.
 
Posts: 1763 | Location: Middle Tennessee | Registered: January 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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you are right
 
Posts: 3788 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: January 24, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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9mm BDA #345RT1606 date coded “HH” is stamped 9mm Luger.




Bye for a while, guard the fort. - My Dad


 
Posts: 10460 | Location: St Augustine | Registered: March 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by .38supersig:

While checking out some P220s, I had noticed that it seems like all of the Browning BDAs have Luger barrels and Sig P220s have Para barrels.

I have only seen one P220 with a Luger barrel and the guy didn't want to let it go (for sentimental reasons).


Found this quote. It is exactly what I suspect. Browning advertised 9mm Luger while Hawes and Interarms advertised 9mm Parabellum.
 
Posts: 1763 | Location: Middle Tennessee | Registered: January 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This looks like a Type 2 slide.

 
Posts: 91 | Location: Alabama USA | Registered: September 01, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It looks like one to me. Does it have any milling between the muzzle and the ejection port? Do you mind sharing the proof code/Date?
 
Posts: 1763 | Location: Middle Tennessee | Registered: January 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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.

Udo, I emailed photos to you as I do not currently have a photo sharing site.

Also, since we are talking about early P220s I wanted to share info about the reason for the change to the Frame in/around 1994 when Sig added the Hammer Reset Spring.

====

Older P220s, including the Browning BDA never had a Hammer Reset Spring. This is an important difference in the safe handling of older P220 pistols manufactured in/before 1994-ish. If the Decocking Lever is not used and the Hammer is lowered incorrectly using the thumb and trigger method ~ the Hammer is free to move and will discharge the weapon if it strikes the Firing Pin.

This unsafe configuration was determined to be the cause of a negligent discharge in 2002 when a San Fernando, CA SWAT officer dropped his duty belt. The P220, while still holstered hit the concrete causing the hammer to impact the chambered round. The officer was killed from a single gunshot wound through the head in the station's parking lot.
https://catonews.org/we-rememb...ficer-jesse-paderez/

=====

Perhaps the least commonly understood safety feature employed by P220s manufactured during after 1994-ish (as well as all P225, P226, P227, P228, P229, and P239) models is the Hammer Reset Spring.

The Hammer Reset Spring is a small spring attached to rear of the Hammer and concealed by the plastic Hammer Stop. If the Decocking Lever is not used and the Hammer is instead lowered incorrectly by using the thumb and trigger method ~ Once the operator releases the Hammer, the Hammer Reset Spring pulls the Hammer away from the Firing Pin and into the Safety Intercept Notch.

I can usually identify Sig users that grew up firing 1911 pistols because they will thumb down the Hammer. Back in the 1970s and 80's, only a few pistols previously had a Decocking Lever. Up until that point in time, thumbing down the hammer was the norm and for many it was a hard habit to break. I think it was also a trust issue on a new technology called a Decocker that released the Hammer and sent it towards the Firing Pin.

=====

There is a simple test to determine if your pistol has a Hammer Reset Spring without having to disassemble you pistol. This test can also be used to verify the Hammer Reset Spring is functioning correctly on pistols made after the design change.

With a CONFIRMED UNLOADED P220, rack the Slide and with the pistol pointed in a safe direction pull the Trigger while thumbing down the Hammer. Keep the Trigger pulled all the way to the rear ~ until the Hammer is in the down position then gently push the Hammer forward to see how far it travels to impact the Firing Pin. This is the normal firing sequence of your P220 pistol.

Release the Trigger and Hammer, then rack the Slide again. Use the Decocking Lever to return the Hammer to the ready position. The Hammer will rest in the Safety Intercept Notch and will not move forward when you apply forward pressure with your thumb on the Hammer. Use of the Decocking Lever is a hard and fast rule with all of my Sigs.

Rack the Slide for a third time and using the Trigger and thumb method, return the Hammer to its resting position. After you release the Trigger, gently use your thumb to push the Hammer forward. If the Hammer moves forward and touches the Firing Pin you have an early P220 without a Hammer Reset Spring. If the Hammer does not move, then your P220 was produced after Sig made the change or you have a bad Hammer Reset Spring in a newer model Sig.

If you own an older P220, you have a simple procedure to safety operate it ~ Always use the Decocking Lever and never thumb down the Hammer.

.
 
Posts: 2870 | Location: San Diego, CA  | Registered: July 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here you go.



 
Posts: 91 | Location: Alabama USA | Registered: September 01, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My other Sig
is a Steyr.
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Well, I'm not sure how rare the Type 2 P220 slides are. I have four of them.

Two are from 1978 and two are from 1980.

quote:
Originally posted by Udo:
quote:
Originally posted by .38supersig:

While checking out some P220s, I had noticed that it seems like all of the Browning BDAs have Luger barrels and Sig P220s have Para barrels.

I have only seen one P220 with a Luger barrel and the guy didn't want to let it go (for sentimental reasons).


Found this quote. It is exactly what I suspect. Browning advertised 9mm Luger while Hawes and Interarms advertised 9mm Parabellum.


Guess I need to update this: I was able to get a 9mm Luger P220 for $450 and the 9mm Luger barrel is serialized with the frame & slide.

So the only 9mm Luger P220s that I have been able to verify are from 1982 and the serials are less than 100 apart.



 
Posts: 9480 | Location: Somewhere looking for ammo that nobody has at a place I haven't been to for a pistol I couldn't live without... | Registered: December 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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