Hi guys. Was wondering if anyone had any pictures of alloy NP3 vs. CCR nikote finishes. I have an old nickel 226 that is flaking off the finish and need to get it redone and wanted to compare the 2. Wanting to keep it as close to original as possible.

I apologize for the dated pics, they are a few years old.

The bottom P-220 is a was refinished by Klein in the 90's. I have since sold it. It had a couple of thousand rounds through it and it looked like new when I sold it. Klein charged $100.00 to plate the whole gun and 2 mags.

The middle P-220 was refinished by ROBAR in NP3 in the 90's. It has thousands of rounds through it and it still cleans up like new.

The top P-220 was refinished by CCR a few years ago. The frame was finished in Nikote. This P-220 has more than 1000 but less than 2000 rounds through it. The finish has held up very well.

If you like, I will try to get some better pics.

All three finishes have worked very well for me. The Robar was carried for several years. None of them saw any really hard use.

Beautiful guns! Which would you say is closest to the original nickel finish?

I thought Robar had closed its doors? Is there someone else doing NP3 now?

I have an original nickel two tone P220 and one I had Robar redo in NP3. NP3 is more matte, almost has a slight brown hue to it. It's beautiful, but hard to photograph. My factory nickel P220 is pretty too, but it's shiny. I had the NP3 done about 20 years ago, have run many thousands of rounds through it since, and it's held up perfectly. No experience with CCR, but they're on my someday list.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I thought Robar had closed its doors? Is there someone else doing NP3 now?

They only take guns in that come from their "partners" now. Robar is 10 min. from my house. I used to just drop them off and pick them up. Now I have to go through a partner that's a 40 min. drive from my house.

Yeah I noticed that the NP3 was rather dull. Was hoping to match the original finish as close as possible. CCR states that the Nikote is close. That’s why I was looking for pictures. Also found an old you tube video or customized creationz nickel Teflon that looks great. Anyone have any experience with them?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I thought Robar had closed its doors? Is there someone else doing NP3 now?

They only take guns in that come from their "partners" now. Robar is 10 min. from my house. I used to just drop them off and pick them up. Now I have to go through a partner that's a 40 min. drive from my house.

Coating Technologies LLC (CTL) is a privately owned business established in 1986 as a captive shop providing protective coatings for the firearms industry. This is the company Robar worked with, in fact I believe Robbie (RObar) Barrkman (roBAR) who is the owner of CTL created ROBAR and then sold it Freddie Blish a retired USMC Lt. Colonel at some point in the late 1990s early 2000s.

CTL was the first company in the Western United States to buy the license for the patented electroless nickel, co-deposited with polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) process and called it NP3. The introduction and implementation of this revolutionary coating opened opportunities in new markets and CTL began working in the aerospace industry.

CTL does not accept direct single orders for firearms, but they have set up these gunsmith partners to accept individual orders:

Wright Armory in Phoenix, AZ
www.WrightArmory.com/NP3-Metal-Finishing/

AmerigunUSA in North Branch, MI
www.AmeriGunUSA.com/

Cajun Gun Works in West Monroe, LA
www.CajunGunWorks.com/

Cylinder and Slide in Fremont, Nebraska
www.Cylinder-slide.com/

Vang Comp Systems in Chino Valley, AZ
www.VangComp.com/

Cummings Custom Refinishing or CCR, has two options that I believe are like NP3.

CPII Plating which is Electroless Nickel with Boron Nitride particles vs. NP3 which is Electroless Nickel with Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene – or PTFE).

CCR also offers Nikote which is for use on Anodized Alloy frames ONLY to be as close of a match to our CPII plating process as possible without having to compromise the factory Anodization.

That, for me is the biggest difference between NP3 and what CCR can do. My P226 received full NP3 in 1987 and has held up great on both the folded slide and anodized alloy frame. Unfortunately, this is not true for others. NP3 requires the anodization to be removed from the alloy frame.

I am not an expert in metals, what I've been told is that NP3 can peal and with the anodization removed, the strength of the alloy goes with it. Again, I have been completely happy with my NP3 but my last pistol sent to Robar did not have NP3 applied to the anodized frame. At the time, I didn't know about CCR.

Considering CCR's reputation and the vast number of pics, my next project is going to them. My primary concern and the reason I went with NP3 originally is salt water corrosion. I enjoy sailing off San Diego and the salt air gets into everything. I've also had a pistol sit in salt water once when a bag ended up finding it's way to where bilge water backed up. The only problem I had was needing to replace springs that still rusted after completely cleaning the entire pistol. None of the NP3 parts had any issue.

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This message has been edited. Last edited by: sleepla8er,

Another great coating it Birdsongs and associates. My duty P220 was done back in about 2000 and did a fantastic job protecting it for nearly 18 years before it was taken out of service for replacement (a dark day).

The finish held very well through lord knows how many draw strokes, holster abrasion, sweat, and even a couple of months in a beach salty air environment. Where the finish wore visibly, I was assured by Walter Birdsong Sr. (who passed in 2009) that the Teflon penetration into the steels micro-pores would continue to inhibit rust- this I found to be accurate. While other officers guns rusted in a day, only my untreated sights had that issue.

One last benefit was that the lubricity from the Teflon was so high that grease was unnecessary. Only FP-10 ever touched it and it was butter smooth until the day it was dismantled.

https://black-t.com/

quote:

Originally posted by sleepla8er:


Coating Technologies LLC (CTL) is a privately owned business established in 1986 as a captive shop providing protective coatings for the firearms industry.

CTL and ROBAR were started and owned by the same guy (Robbie Barrkman). CTL always did the coatings for ROBAR... they just closed the gunshop business (ROBAR).

quote:

Originally posted by Grubber1:
Beautiful guns! Which would you say is closest to the original nickel finish?

Well Klein did the nickel for Sigs in the 90's. When I called Sig and told them I wanted to send them a NIB blue P-220 to refinish in nickel, the referred me to Klein, saying that is who did their work. So it was essentially a Sig nickel finish.

In the past 10-15 years or so (until ROBAR ceased refinishing firearms), I was told Robar was providing the factory nickel finishes for Sig.

I do give a slight edge between Sig factory nickel and NP3 to the NP3. NP3 is more than just electroless nickel. I can shoot it dry, something few Sig owners have ever said.

I do like CCR's work as well.

Here's some NP3 porn for you. I have spent a lot of money at Robar.

I just got this poor HK P10 slide in. This pic is after the customer sent it to Robar to have it NP3

No excuse for this poor work

We do not plate alloy Sig frames for the reason you have to remove the factory anodize to plate and it is not a good idea on Sig alloy frames

Thanks for the responses. Will try to send this thing into CCR and hope it matches close enought. Their work looks incredible. Nice bunch of guns y’all have.

I'm late to the party as usual.


here's my P228 with CPII/Nikote and my Glock 35 with CPII slide.

Here's a pair of factory Klein guns bracketing a CCR CPII Silver treated 226 in the middle. I believe this was the earlier CCR CPII...they changed their formulation to be less 'yellow' a year or two back.



And NP3 plated:



and NP3 but high polished:



note; all in the same room, same overhead 4K lumen Cree LED lighting

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
Here's a pair of factory Klein guns bracketing a CCR CPII Silver treated 226 in the middle. I believe this was the earlier CCR CPII...they changed their formulation to be less 'yellow' a year or two back.

The P228, if it is the Nov 2005 GOTM, actually was not Klein plated. Klein stopped doing fireams and turned in their FFL several years before that P228 was produced. Don't know who did that plating, but it wasn't Klein.

CCR is the only company I would ever let refinish my guns. I've referred a couple of friends to them, and they were extremely happy with their work as well.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

The P228, if it is the Nov 2005 GOTM, actually was not Klein plated. Klein stopped doing fireams and turned in their FFL several years before that P228 was produced. Don't know who did that plating, but it wasn't Klein.

both came from you so I'll defer to your knowledge on this