I just ordered one of the little Pugs and excited to receive it. I was lucky enough to find one of the limited edition black PVD coated models with both .22 Magnum and .22 LR cylinders. Anyone own one that can offer some first hand experience? All the videos seem to be pretty positive. I'm really looking for any feedback as to the longevity of these firearms. Anyone got one that has a "high round count"?

Side note...this thing was really hard to find. The vast majority of the outlets were sold out. I have been turned off with NAA corporate as they have refused to answer 3 emails and 1 phone message. I tried to reach out to them a total of 4 times over the course of 3 weeks and never received a response. Im hoping I dont ever need them in the future with any real repair issue.

I think the only weak spot in these would be the cylender hand. It is the only part I have ever heard that actually broke.

I have a Widow and a Mini in 17 HMR and they are more fun than I thought they would be. Got plenty of rounds through them with no issues.

You're unlikely to need a repair. Rarely, a hand will break or a pawl will get dinged, but generally you'll only need springs in a lifetime or two. I have a MiniMaster, having had a Short growing up.

I have two the regular but ported and the case hardened one with rosewood grips. Wife and I use a simple Desantis holster with a round pouch and works great. Very easy to throw in a pocket in shorts, carry as backup, etc. Surprisingly pleasant to shoot and .22 wmr has a bit of flash.

Congratulations and having the two cylinders will be nice. Yes basically a tank

I’ve got two as well, a short magnum with a night sight (was a special run) and a mini master. Great for going hunting with, the small one goes in my pocket everywhere. No issues with mine. I’m pretty sure every gun and ammo manufacturers are crazy busy trying to put out product, not so much time for emails.

My PUG has been a joy to carry each and every day for years now. I bought it with the .22 LR cylinder in addition to the .22 magnum. One thing that really gave me a boost of confidence in pocket carry was finding a nicely made kydex holster that covers the hammer and trigger completely, eliminating the worry or accidental movement of the hammer while in pocket.

I have a standard model NAA mini revolver. Yes very minimal, but a little something. I like it, price was good.

I have an "Earl" which keyholes, badly. When doing some research and then talking to NAA, it's a common thing for the NAA revolvers, mostly due to bad timing. NAA will work on it and correct it, they say if someone wants to send their pistol in. They will also add and time a second cylinder (eg, 22 mag or 22LR) for a cost, while the revolver is in for service.

I've come across enough who indicate keyholing in their NAA revolver to suggest that NAA sells them without much caring, on the operating theory that most won't shoot them enough to know, and won't bother to return them to be corrected. I'm sure that most owners rarely fire their NAA revolver, and when they do, don't notice or care, and never do get it corrected.

I had one like 10 years ago and thought it was a nifty little thing, as I recall it was pretty loud to fire even with good hearing protection on. Loved how that little thing disappeared into dress pants and jeans, something that is harder to do with even your small mouse guns like the P3AT or LCP

I dumbly did a purge at one point and sold or traded it and have been kicking myself ever since.

I haven’t had any problems with mine keyholing but then I usually only shoot it from 5 yards max. Think I’ll try some different distances next time I hit the range to see if I can replicate what you’re describing.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I have an "Earl" which keyholes, badly. When doing some research and then talking to NAA, it's a common thing for the NAA revolvers, mostly due to bad timing. NAA will work on it and correct it, they say if someone wants to send their pistol in. They will also add and time a second cylinder (eg, 22 mag or 22LR) for a cost, while the revolver is in for service.

I've come across enough who indicate keyholing in their NAA revolver to suggest that NAA sells them without much caring, on the operating theory that most won't shoot them enough to know, and won't bother to return them to be corrected. I'm sure that most owners rarely fire their NAA revolver, and when they do, don't notice or care, and never do get it corrected.

Who did you talk to? That doesn't make technical sense- if the timing is off, you'll have shaving and spitting, but not keyholing, unless it's to the point where it's about to plant one nose-first into the frame.

Conceivably, you could have the effect of tolerance stacking, with an out of time cylinder and bad rounds of cheaper ammo, resulting in lack of rotation, with the expected sequelea, but that's hardly a, "common problem".

You may also see it when hypervelocity rounds are run through the shorter barrel lengths.

My second-hand MiniMaster is equal to my MkII Target, out to 25 yards.

This really isn't technically a "Derringer" is it?

When I read Derringer, I think of a tiny one or two shot pistol. This is a full SA 5-round revolver, just super tiny.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob1972:

Who did you talk to? That doesn't make technical sense- if the timing is off, you'll have shaving and spitting, but not keyholing, unless it's to the point where it's about to plant one nose-first into the frame.

Conceivably, you could have the effect of tolerance stacking, with an out of time cylinder and bad rounds of cheaper ammo, resulting in lack of rotation, with the expected sequelea, but that's hardly a, "common problem".

[/QUOTE]

It's a common problem because it's a common problem. Do a little research.

I talked to a representative at NAA. That conversation supported the research, and my own results.

Multiple types of ammunition. No significant difference.

Yes, all the things one expects from poor timing. Including keyholing, because as the round enters the forcing cone, it is deformed. Think about it.

NAA sells a lot of the revolvers because they're inexpensive and small,and not very many people will take the time to send them back for work. Most won't shoot them much. Many who do will shoot to see if they can hit something and call it good. Many won't know that there's a problem, and consequently, in ignorance, won't care.

It's not a target pistol. It's not a silhouette revolver. It's a pocket or boot pistol for near point-blank range, and most won't care what it does so long as it spits something out the front and makes some noise.

One would expect the earl, with its longer barrel (and sight radius) to display better accuracy. Instead, no.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob1972:

Who did you talk to? That doesn't make technical sense- if the timing is off, you'll have shaving and spitting, but not keyholing, unless it's to the point where it's about to plant one nose-first into the frame.

Conceivably, you could have the effect of tolerance stacking, with an out of time cylinder and bad rounds of cheaper ammo, resulting in lack of rotation, with the expected sequelea, but that's hardly a, "common problem".

It's a common problem because it's a common problem. Do a little research.

Non-sequitir, identify the problem; e.g., it is usually ammo selection.

quote:

I talked to a representative at NAA. That conversation supported the research, and my own results.

As of 5 years ago, there were only about 4 people you could have spoken with, and giving the idea that NAAs routinely leave "out of time" is neither their standard, nor would that be something that would be communicated, under Sandy.

quote:

Multiple types of ammunition. No significant difference.

Narrowing things down. If you send it in, they will make it right.

quote:

Yes, all the things one expects from poor timing. Including keyholing, because as the round enters the forcing cone, it is deformed. Think about it.

Off-timing rarely, rarely, results in keyholing. Damage is done to the nose by the forcing cone, but expanding gas and friction continue to swell the base against the rifling, imparting spin. If the timing is so off that it is causing keyholing (i.e., as you indicate, you're getting significant spitting), you are still in the position of having to send it back, since you're nearing a full out-of-battery ignition.

quote:

NAA sells a lot of the revolvers because they're inexpensive and small, and not very many people will take the time to send them back for work. Most won't shoot them much. Many who do will shoot to see if they can hit something and call it good. Many won't know that there's a problem, and consequently, in ignorance, won't care.

You can get 1.5-2 whole Yeet Cannons for the price of 1 NAA, MSRP, "cheap-n-nasty", they aren't. $200 is on the cheaper end for firearms today, but they hardly glut the market.

quote:

It's not a target pistol. It's not a silhouette revolver. It's a pocket or boot pistol for near point-blank range, and most won't care what it does so long as it spits something out the front and makes some noise.

One would expect the earl, with its longer barrel (and sight radius) to display better accuracy. Instead, no.

Correct. You should easily hold 1" at 25 yards, with your Earl. On a pocket pistol, with no extra space, the situation you describe is getting risky for your fingers.

I've built several revolvers (S&W, Ruger), and have 4 cylinders, all second hand, for my Mini, all of which were drop-in, so while I'm sorry for your experience, I would question some of the broader generalizations.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob1972:
You should easily hold 1" at 25 yards, with your Earl.

That's actually funny.

Either my mini master (4”) or my magnum mini ( 1/8”) show any signs of keyholing.
I can’t do 1” groups at 25 yards, but 25 feet....

I'm able to hit a sheet of notebook paper at 15 yards with my Pug, 4 out of 5 times with the magnum cylinder.

Unfortunately my score with the .22 LR cylinder is 0 out of 5. Hmm ...

I’ve got a couple of the NAA revolvers. A .22 magnum and a .22 short. Neither show any signs of keyholing and both are surprisingly accurate. Though I’ve not shot either at 25 yards. The .22 Short is a fun little gun to shoot and the .22 Mag is a great gun to carry when you literally cannot carry anything else.

I can’t remember who it is but usually in threads about these guns someone comes along to warn everyone that the hammer will routinely jump itself out of the safety notch and place itself over a live round. I’ve carried mine for years in a pocket holster and never had that issue, nor do I recall anyone else on the forum confirming that one persons warning. I did some internet digging and found some stories but everyone I found was from someone not using a holster that covered the hammer.

I’ve got a NAA Wasp in 22 mag that keyholes and couldn’t hit a 8” circle at 5 yards with any consistency. I practice throwing it at an IPSC/IDPA target at 5 yards because I have a better chance at hitting the target than shooting it. To me, I’m not even sure the bullet is engaging the rifling.