I just heard it again from a firearms attorney to never carry a handgun that had a trigger job since it puts you in greater liability? True or False.

My SIG M11 A1 had the SIG "Actin Enhancement Package" that reduced trigger pull from 10/4.5 lbs to 8/4 lbs. I also replaced the Short Reach Trigger with a standard trigger.

Does my SIG AEP qualify as trigger job?

The totality of circumstances would apply in a shooting. Was it reasonable to use deadly force? Was someone in immediate threat of having deadly force applied to them or a third party. A minor adjustment of a trigger would hardly play an important role.

I agree that it is not a factor.
Furthermore, the AEP is a factory procedure that comes with a receipt attesting to it being factory tested for safety.
Worry not.

Bruce

I don't know about the true/false question, but if any of my handguns needs a trigger job for the trigger to be the way I need it to shoot the firearm well: It gets a trigger job.

If a trigger has been made so light that it causes you to inadvertently fire a shot, that would be a problem.

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10/4.5 lbs to 8/4 lbs.

I can't imagine this being a problem.

I dont see it being an issue, unless it is not a good shooting. Or perhaps if sommeone other than your intended target is struck by yours gunfire.

This is more the issue. Remember self defense is never an accident. If the prosecutor can paint the incident as a negligent discharge, having a gun with a lighter then manufacturer spec trigger could get the shooter jacked up on negligent homicide.

If you just have the trigger smoothed as cleaned up, you should be okay. If you have it shortened and/or lightened, it could cause legal problems.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
If a trigger has been made so light that it causes you to inadvertently fire a shot, that would be a problem.

quote:

10/4.5 lbs to 8/4 lbs.

I can't imagine this being a problem.

I don't agree with the attorney you spoke with. In all my striker fired pistols that I carry, I have modified the trigger for an increased trigger pull. My couple of Glocks and MP's all have a trigger pull of 6 to 8+ lbs, and I made the modifications. I have no worries if I ever had to use them in a SD situation. Like others have said, I would be worried about carrying a striker with a very lite trigger pull; 2-3 Lbs. I want a deliberate, conscious pull of the trigger.

I think the attorney was not talking about NDs, but rather whether a defendant in a self defense shooting can be painted as a triggered (literally) individual, prone to using deadly force before it actually becomes a last resort.

I suppose the argument would be if a gun owner has made performance enhancements on his weapons, that is concrete evidence he is a violence-prone person. (btw I would not agree with that notion, but what would a judge say?)

I'd like to hear some of the forum lawyers chime in with actual case history. How has the court dealt with this situation in the past? How often do prosecutors attempt to profile people as trigger-happy?

In my opinion (which along with $1 will get you a cup of coffee) an improved trigger tends to make me shoot the pistol more accurately, and therefore more safely for anything other than my intended target. If I leave the trigger stock, and the stock trigger causes me to pull the shots, then isn’t that the wreckless action? I believe that improving the trigger to keep my shots on my intended target is the more responsible course of action. I would expect a defense attorney to argue that point if faced by a prosecutor trying to paint it the other way around. Of course, I truly hope I never (nor any of you) have to find this out first-hand.

An experienced and corrupt prosecutor can change the charge from murder etc to reckless endangerment with life lost to negate a defense of self-defense.

There are valid arguments to both points of view and there are far too many variables in regards to the specifics of any shooting to answer the question with any certainty. At least one of the several variables would depend on the District Attorney or Prosecutor.

Having said that, the one and only case that I'm aware of in which a modified handgun was used in an unintentional shooting was used by a LEO. He had just received a bulletin about a stolen vehicle and a short time later spotted it, tailed it, pulled it over, and while pointing his duty gun inside the cab it went off striking one of the suspects (survived). Apparently it was determined that he did not intend to fire the shot from the modified gun...and I recall that both he and his department were in some hot water over the incident, but damned if I can recall the final disposition. I have the incident saved on an external hard drive, however the drive went T.U. and until I can recover the data it is inaccessible.

quote:

Originally posted by SigFan:
In my opinion (which along with $1 will get you a cup of coffee) an improved trigger tends to make me shoot the pistol more accurately, and therefore more safely for anything other than my intended target. If I leave the trigger stock, and the stock trigger causes me to pull the shots, then isn’t that the wreckless action? I believe that improving the trigger to keep my shots on my intended target is the more responsible course of action. I would expect a defense attorney to argue that point if faced by a prosecutor trying to paint it the other way around. Of course, I truly hope I never (nor any of you) have to find this out first-hand.

I agree with this.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I agree that it is not a factor.
Furthermore, the AEP is a factory procedure that comes with a receipt attesting to it being factory tested for safety.
Worry not.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce it is good to hear your point of view

False, I will modify it to improve performance

I am not an attorney, but would imagine this varies state to state. Some states have some chicken shit deadly force statutes and even more chicken shit prosecutors.

I'm blessed to live in Texas where our force and deadly force statutes can be best summarized as to whether or not a reasonable person would be justified in using force or deadly force. That is how it was presented at the LTC course by an attorney, and matches my own reading. Absolutely nothing in there about your trigger being stock. As long as all of the following are true:

a reasonable person would be justified in pulling the trigger

you intentionally pulled the trigger (i.e. no AD or ND)

you only hit who you were aiming at
then it doesn't matter if your trigger is stock or been modified.

The views expressed here are refereshing. I do not want to buy a 229 simply because I have an Action Enhancement Package performed by SIG Sauer Inc. In fact I replaced the Short Reach Trigger with a standard trigger so it cannot be fired as fast.

Another concept: Keep your mouth shut about it. I doubt that most guns used in self defense shootings are examined in such detail that someone could tell it had custom work done on it. The exception being a readily observable custom trigger in a Glock. The Sig factory tune up restores and confirms all safety features and your paperwork says so.

In what now feels like another lifetime ago I was a criminal defense attorney for 5 years out of law school.

I modify my guns without concern. It’s the kind of things people like to wring their hands over on the internet, but simply isn’t important in the real world.

If you modify your gun or car or home or...anything...and render it unsafe, that’s another story. For example, you lighten your Glock so much that when you sneeze it discharges and kills a kid, that’s a different story.

Light trigger in a self defense case? No matter at all. It is not an element of the crime of murder or manslaughter. If it’s a good shoot, it’s a good shoot. That gray guns made your gun a beast on the range is of no consequence. Enjoy your hot rods!

light trigger or not the finger should not even be on the trigger unless the situation has escaladed to the point of use of force.The LEO who shot the person in the car should be in hot water for resting his finger on the trigger in that situation.Remember that under a stressful situation such as fear of life what the trigger pull weight is will never be felt anyway- with an adrenaline rush a 10lb trigger will still go off as easy as a 3lb trigger.