I’ve been training hard to improve my shooting skills. Dusted off the timer and started spending time in the pistol pit where I can practice drawing and firing at speed. I’ve been spending most of my time driving Gen 5 Glocks and really learning to drive the trigger at speed. I’ve also been spending a little time behind a P320 X5 Legion. I am extremely happy with my progress and will most likely be taking another training class in September up in Paducah. Here is where I could use some help and tips. I most often shoot a G17 or G19, and also have a G17 MOS w/ 6.5 RMR and a G34 MOS w/ 3.25 RMR. I can’t shoot the RMRs worth a crap. I can get on the dot fast but my target looks like it was shot by “a soggy shit sandwich”! I had the RMR G17 with me at a class in June but was focused on other things and didn’t want to throw the optic into the mix, even though Jerry suggested I should. I’m kind of regretting that decision because it isn’t clicking even though everything else is. I have a Leupold DP Pro Ready to go for Legion but am hesitant to put it on.

I have two questions for Jerry and the hive. If I am able to make it to the Applied Fundamentals class in September, should I commit to running the RMR? Second, I am looking for any suggestion to help me with the transition to pistol optics and help to get me over this most frustrating hump. I really feel like this is all in my head because it feels really good while dry firing.

Thanks in advance for your input.

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:
If I am able to make it to the Applied Fundamentals class in September, should I commit to running the RMR?

Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, if you're wanting to improve with the RMR the only way to do that is to work with the RMR.

quote:

Second, I am looking for any suggestion to help me with the transition to pistol optics and help to get me over this most frustrating hump. I really feel like this is all in my head because it feels really good while dry firing.

I think we need more information as to why your targets look like "a soggy shit sandwich" before we can provide suggestions.

The thing that many folks seem to struggle with initially when starting with MRDSs is a sloppy draw/presentation, which slows down initial dot acquisition, and can often lead to them subconsciously rushing the trigger pull (jerking/slapping) to "make up" for the time they had to spend hunting around for the dot. You claim this initial acquisition isn't an issue, which is good news. If true, you're ahead of the curve.

Still, it sounds like something's screwy with one or more of your other fundamentals, like your grip and/or trigger pull. Are you jerking the trigger? Flinching/anticipating? Milking the grip? These are things that are hard to self-diagnose, and even harder to diagnose through just text on a computer screen.


Another consideration: Have you checked the screws on your sight and plate? On any optic, loose mounting screws are detrimental to repeatable accuracy.

Good points. Here is what I think is happening... As I come up on the draw, focused on the front sight the dot appears and the focal transition is smooth. The dot appears on the target faster than I expect and I’m slapping the crap out of the last third of the pull. I’m trying to slow it down but I get so excited the dot is there I blast off like a 15 y/o on prom night. My group goes from a two inch center fist group at speed to a six inch group (left, right, high, low), all around the A zone.

I hear in my head... prep, confirm, roll

My finger is hearing... prep, confff, slap

I am not much help to you, but I too struggle with dot sights. I think they (if not already) are the wave of the future.
I pick up the dot fairly quickly but I find I cant hold it steady at speed. The wiggling dot distracts me and I blow the shot. My targets end up looking like yours.

I can keep the dot pretty steady through the complete dry fire sequence. I think maybe some of my rushing the shot is happening because the dot is making it to the target faster than my sights do and my trigger isn’t completely prepped. I’m normally fully prepped about the time my sights line up on my target which isn’t the case on the dot.

Part of an ongoing series. I believe this is the 3rd installment.

May be of value.





Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1MKmFdFBBQ

Yes - take a class with your dot gun and commit to working with it. People think that the red dot is an easy button and it's not. It absolutely can make you a better shooter (I think it massively cleans up your draws and helps diagnose poor trigger control, but it takes time.

Watch all of the Sage Dynamics stuff and consider Surefire's Field Notes video on "The Flinchies" with Chuck Pressburg. I've thought myself a competent shooter for some time, but some of the stuff Chuck talks about was really "oh this is me" kind of stuff.

If the dot isn't looking sharp, i.e. fuzzy, you may want to have your eyes examined for astigmatism. Or if you know you have some talk to your Dr. about corrective lens.

Some of my officers were having issues when we switched. I ended up removing their front sight. Try that for a bit. When they stopped focusing on the front sight it helped.

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:
Some of my officers were having issues when we switched. I ended up removing their front sight. Try that for a bit. When they stopped focusing on the front sight it helped.

Exactly. Remove the iron sight(s). It sounds like you are trying to focus on two things at once. Free up brain power by removing one of them.

With a RMR, the key is to look at the target as the front site and the dot as the rear site.

quote:

Originally posted by gwmac:
If the dot isn't looking sharp, i.e. fuzzy, you may want to have your eyes examined for astigmatism. Or if you know you have some talk to your Dr. about corrective lens.

I do suffer from astigmatism and have special glasses made just for shooting. My right eye is corrected perfectly, my left eye is corrected adequately. I am cross dominant so my dot is only a slight bit fuzzy but not enough to cause my problem. I appreciate the video and the suggestions of removing the front sight. I also believe I may have discovered a big bit of my problem. On my rifles, I look through the scope to the target and the dot is a complete afterthought...it’s just there. On my pistols, I believe I’m focused on the dot and not the target. This is all starting to make more sense to me.

quote:

With a RMR, the key is to look at the target as the front site and the dot as the rear site.

This. You look through the sight. Focus on the target. The dot gets "superimposed" over the target . Press & repeat.
It sounds like you've got the draw down but are focusing on the dot which initially is good to get it on target fast. Now both eyes open & focus on the target. You dot will be there. Also, 6.5 moa dot is kind of big for accuracy shots up close so don't beat yourself up too much if your groups aren't perfect.

The Hive?

Glad I’m not a regular if that’s how it is.

quote:

6.5 moa dot is kind of big for accuracy shots up close

huh? 6.5 is less than an inch all the way to 20y. and not much more at any reasonable range. That is not a factor in this at all. My opinion is to slow down. Can you make good groups slow fire?

I want to support first the idea that removing the sights is a good thing initially, but it doesn’t sound like what your problem is


The RDS is going to dance about way more than iron sights do. My problem is my trigger pull is for shit because when the dot looks “Perfect” I jerk the shit out of the trigger. When I slow down my shooting and really concentrate on trigger pull I shoot much better...and not that much more slowly....I Basically went backwards in shooting speed until i liked my groups, and starting building back up in speed with a better trigger pull.

Unfortunately I’ve been in the middle of this recently as 9mm has hit insane prices....

quote:

The RDS is going to dance about way more than iron sights do. My problem is my trigger pull is for shit because when the dot looks “Perfect” I jerk the shit out of the trigger. When I slow down my shooting and really concentrate on trigger pull I shoot much better...and not that much more slowly....I Basically went backwards in shooting speed until i liked my groups, and starting building back up in speed with a better trigger pull.

I chose to not take off the front sight and went out to practice. I’ve slowed things down and am working on getting my first shot on target. I think I’m finally grasping the subtle differences and making huge progress. With iron sights, my eyes find the target(top of the zero CM on IDPA target), draw, press to target while prepping the trigger, as the front sight comes into view my eyes transition, confirm sight picture, roll through the trigger. On the red dot, I was focused on the dot trying to drive it to the target and slapping the trigger. This is what is happening now with the RDS. Find my target, draw, press to the target while prepping the trigger, using my target as the front sight, patiently wait for the dot to show up (no longer hunting for it), roll through the trigger.

I have tightened down the group using draw fire one drills. It is exaggerating two known grip issues that I am working on. One is from an initial grip that causes the dot to show up late. That’s easy to fix with repetition. The second is a grip pressure issue that causes my impacts to be just left of the POA. Also, easy to fix. The instant feedback is humbling. Once, I do my job more consistently I will begin to add more speed. I am beginning to think the real advantage to the MRDS sight will be in transitioning through multiple targets.

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:

I have two questions for Jerry and the hive. If I am able to make it to the Applied Fundamentals class in September, should I commit to running the RMR? Second, I am looking for any suggestion to help me with the transition to pistol optics and help to get me over this most frustrating hump. I really feel like this is all in my head because it feels really good while dry firing.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Shoot me an email with a phone number. Or hit me through the opspec page.