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Originally posted by MNSIG:

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Originally posted by FHHM213:
Yep. It’s not as if a hammer would have to spontaneously cock itself & release while the weapon sits motionless, as with a DA/SA while in decocked status.

No, but without an actual component failure (a broken piece would be found upon inspection), several other parts need to move spontaneously to simulate a trigger pull. Seems a bit unlikely.

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Originally posted by FHHM213:

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Originally posted by MNSIG:

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Originally posted by FHHM213:
Yep. It’s not as if a hammer would have to spontaneously cock itself & release while the weapon sits motionless, as with a DA/SA while in decocked status.

No, but without an actual component failure (a broken piece would be found upon inspection), several other parts need to move spontaneously to simulate a trigger pull. Seems a bit unlikely.

I didn’t say “likely”, I just wanted a bit more clarity discussed as to theoretically possible. Otherwise, we seemed a bit too much focused on necessary trigger movement and I don’t think that accurately described the realm of possibilities.

A plaintiff attorney in a civil matter can probe and capitalize on these seemingly-unlikely possibilities.

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Originally posted by FHHM213:I didn’t say “likely”, I just wanted a bit more clarity discussed as to theoretically possible. Otherwise, we seemed a bit too much focused on necessary trigger movement and I don’t think that accurately described the realm of possibilities.

A plaintiff attorney in a civil matter can probe and capitalize on these seemingly-unlikely possibilities.

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Originally posted by FHHM213:
If you were on the jury.

Unfortunately, a large segment of our population will have a different bias (against guns, against ‘greedy, profit-seeking companies that cut corners’, against...). Plus, we were all taught in grade school to hold a bit a skepticism towards absolute phrases like “such can never happen” or “such always happens”.

And, I wouldn’t be surprised if a few expert witnesses are available to state that ‘it is possible’. And it is not inconceivable to get the defense expert to concede that ‘it is possible’.

Also, I think Sig produces about 500,000 weapons each year? Thus, one doesn’t have to argue for a high rate of failure in order to suggest that a few weapons could fail over a couple of years.

I don’t have a dog in this hunt and, as an old corporate guy, I tend to have an unfriendly bias against plaintiffs in product liability claims. But, it could be difficult for a defendant to adequately counter the spin that a plaintiff attorney gins up.

Lastly, as an analogy, we would not knowingly point an unloaded weapon at a loved one. Despite our understanding of its operation and our just-completed steps to ensure the weapon is safe, we hopefully are convinced that we can still screw up. And our family member dang well knows that we can screw up.

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A key point of contention was the ease with which the weapon could have been fired accidentally. A supervising criminologist at the San Francisco Police Department crime lab testified that the gun was in excellent condition and would not have fired without someone pulling the trigger. The defense emphasized that the Sig Sauer pistol has no external safety mechanism to prevent accidental firing, and pointed to a record of even police trained in the use of Sig Sauer pistols having made accidental discharges. As examined by the criminologist, it was placed in single-action mode (where the hammer is cocked), rather than double-action mode (where a single pull of the trigger both cocks and releases the hammer). While it is typical for a gun that has been fired to be in single-action mode, a gun in single-action mode also requires less trigger pressure to fire. The defense argued that this made it more plausible that García Zárate could have pulled the trigger accidentally while picking up or unwrapping the bundled gun. Woychowski, a BLM ranger, testified that he always left the pistol in double-action mode, but that he typically loaded it in single-action mode, and couldn't definitively say that he had returned it to double-action mode before it was stolen.[43] The defense rested its case after four days.

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Originally posted by iron chef:
This is pretty much what happened in the Kate Steinle shooting trial. However improbable, the defense was able to convince the jury (likely composed of people who if not ignorant of how firearms function were outright hoplophobic) that the accidental discharge of the P239 was possible.

From Wikipedia:
[QUOTE]A key point of contention was the ease with which the weapon could have been fired accidentally. A supervising criminologist at the San Francisco Police Department crime lab testified that the gun was in excellent condition and would not have fired without someone pulling the trigger. The defense emphasized that the Sig Sauer pistol has no external safety mechanism to prevent accidental firing, and pointed to a record of even police trained in the use of Sig Sauer pistols having made accidental discharges. As examined by the criminologist, it was placed in single-action mode (where the hammer is cocked), rather than double-action mode (where a single pull of the trigger both cocks and releases the hammer). While it is typical for a gun that has been fired to be in single-action mode, a gun in single-action mode also requires less trigger pressure to fire. The defense argued that this made it more plausible that García Zárate could have pulled the trigger accidentally while picking up or unwrapping the bundled gun. Woychowski, a BLM ranger, testified that he always left the pistol in double-action mode, but that he typically loaded it in single-action mode, and couldn't definitively say that he had returned it to double-action mode before it was stolen.[43] The defense rested its case after four days.