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E tan e epi tas |
What is so friggin hard about making a magazine for them? It’s been this way since they came on the scene. This individual mag works, this one doesn’t. Not brand but individual mag. Now we are using Glock mags which may or may not show to be “the solution” but my question still stands. What is so inherently difficult about making a mag for a 2011/double stack 1911??? I mean we’ve had like 25 years to figure it out. I know making mags is not easy and they are a critical component but again like 25 years!!! and it’s not like ProMag has been the only one working on it.  Take Care, Shoot Safe, Chris | ||
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For real? |
The issue is that the 2011 mags were originally for .45acp/.38super, so they're some issues when using them for 9mm. They've pretty much worked out the kinks, my last Staccatos didn't have any issues with their current gen mags (gen3 on my C2 and new style mags on my 2024 C). But I hear horror stories of dropped mags messing up the feed lip angles and you'll need to retune them or something. There's "2011"s out there that also take SIG P320 mags. Not minority enough! | |||
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| Member |
9mm 2011 magazines work fine now. I own many and use Staccato mags, MBX mags, Checkmate mags, etc. no problems. Staccato “fixed” the mag some years ago and everyone followed suit. Glock magazines are a solution to the high cost more than fixing reliability. The way I see it, it’s not much of a 2011 without a 2011 magazine. | |||
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| My other Sig is a Steyr.  |
Never had any problems with SVI magazines other than the price. Consider also that the 2011 is the preferred architecture for 'race guns' more than home defense, but they both have their limits. I had bought a box of race gun parts for $800. There was an SVI frame, two Caspian slides, several barrels, C-More red dots, and about 15 magazines. Assembling a complete pistol was easy enough, until I wanted a recoil spring. It only cycled .38 Super with a 6 1/2 pound progressive recoil spring. Getting everything to work properly in a custom 2011 would make one think the mag was the problem as opposed to the pistol working fine as a complete assembly. I can also say that I've had no problems using a 2011 magazine in a P227.  | |||
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| An investment in knowledge pays the best interest |
Explain why Sig, besides its godawful marketing personnel, doesn't make a double-stack P210 (i.e. SP 44/16) given the 2011 rage? | |||
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| Member |
Been using Gen3 Staccato mags as well as Atlas brand mags and haven't had any issues with mine. | |||
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| Member |
The P226 and P320 are the DS platforms they spend R&D money on. One could ask why Sig just doesn’t make a real 2011, being they build 1911’s. That seems a lot more practical than a double stack P210. | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
Last I knew they built "kind of 1911s." They've a squared-off slide top. They did make a traditional-pattern 1911 at one point. If they still had when I was looking for my first 1911, my first 1911 might've been a Sig. (Or maybe not. When I was looking for my first 1911 I fondled a Sig. The trigger was underwhelming.) I've Remington, Kimber, Colt, and Springfield 1911s; from full-size to compact. They all fit in the same holsters. A square-topped Sig "1911" will not. Why Sig chooses to do that is anybody's guess. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
I have spent about 6 months with analysis paralysis on buying a 2011. Priced them. Read reviews. Looked at magazine types used, their cost and availability. Holsters. Everything related the 2011. Was about get my feet wet in the "platform" with the Springfield Prodigy. But I got to thinking, what is a 2011? Its a single action / manual safety, optic ready 9mm 1911 using a double stack magazine in either full size or Commander barrel lengths. Kinda like, mostly like.... A Browning High Power! So after more analysis, I just bought a Girsan High Power clone. Its optic ready. And bought 4 BHP MecGar mags from Greg Cote for a whopping $100. And it was way cheaper to go this route than even the cheaper 2011, the Prodigy. The modular grip of the 2011 still interests me so I may still try one out. Possibly in 10mm? But I will tinker with the Girsan for time being. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| My other Sig is a Steyr. |
Yes! I happened upon a 10mm 2011 about ten years ago. It was kinda spendy, but remains my go-to gun for range time as well as the nightstand.  | |||
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| An investment in knowledge pays the best interest |
What R&D for the p226 and P320? Why is a double stack p210 not practical vs a 2011? The former design already exists. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
I have five Gen 3 mags for my Staccato P and have not had one single failure with these after over 1000 rds. The gun and mags have been 100% reliable. "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| Member |
No it’s not even remotely similar to a Browning Hi Power. The 2011 is completely different in terms of feel and, especially, performance. That being said, save up a few more “gun dollars” when you do and get a Staccato. The Prodigy is lousy. | |||
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| Member |
I agree with the others who say the magazines are pretty figured out now. A large percentage of the magazines are being made by Checkmate (they have identical markings other than branding). The Springfield mags are made by Duramag and also seem to mostly work. I think this is largely a case of production methods improving and tube geometry getting more consistent. I personally find the Staccato mags to be somewhat weakly sprung, but I replace them with Atlas springs once they start to chug. Edit to add: I've got about 40 2011 magazines split between STI, Springfield, Staccato Gen 2 and 3, Checkmate, and Triarc. most are 140mm, but I have some 120, 126, and 170s. My oldest mags are pre-Staccato Gen 2s from before the name change. | |||
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| Member |
First off, I don’t think Sig will make either a 2011 or a double stack P210. That being said, it’s the 2011 design that already exists, not a wide body P210, other than some Swiss prototypes 80 years ago. I was referring to the competition oriented P226 and P320 models that Sig has recently released. That’s the development dollars I was referring to. Those are Sig’s competition platforms. | |||
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| Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished |
Maybe R&D is a reference to the changes made to the 226 and 320 since they were introduced. For example, the stainless 226 long extractor slide is quite a bit different from the original one-piece stainless slides (and I think it's a lot better). I don't work in the gun industry but it seems to me the cost to produce a double stack P210 wouldn't be worth it's likely tiny market. "Everybody" is making 2011s now because some patents expired and they are "hot." I doubt a double stack P210 would sell, even if it were priced close to a Staccato. And if it's not optic capable then the market is even smaller. | |||
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| I swear I had something for this |
I disagree. The key defining feature of a 2011 vs 1911 Double Stack like the Paras or Wilsons is the 3 piece construction of slide, frame, and separate grip trigger guard. Moving to a Glock style mag lets you change the mag button on the other side and, more importantly, give you a smaller/slimmer grip built around a 9mm instead of a larger grip built for 38 Super/45 ACP where 98% will never swap calibers because you'd have to pay full gun money to get different slides fitted to their gun.
Like others have said, they're two different things. Like I said above, a 2011 is 3 distinct pieces to avoid the old Para/RIA problem of having an absurdly huge and heavy frame. You also lose the 1911 style trigger going with the Hi Power which is also worse than more DA/SA triggers in Single Action. | |||
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| Member |
Yes, I’m very well aware of the 2011’s construction. The Para and Wilson are both different and also different from each other. We can agree to disagree on the magazine. I think one of the biggest defining aspects of the 1911 and 2011 are the magazines used. Likewise, I never considered a pistol a 1911 without magazine compatibility. We’ll see what happens. This new Staccato is the first pistol that uses Glock magazines that likely feels like a 2011 in hand. The others I’ve handled do not (Fusion, Platypus) | |||
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semi-reformed sailor |
I have a STI in 40. It works perfectly. I have five mags and have never had to do anything to them besides clean them. My FIL has three STIs, 38Super comp, 9 & 45. He bought the dvd and tuning tool from Dawson Precision and has shot the 38Super one for 20 years attaining Master class shooter with it, dropping the same five mags on every surface imaginable. The only thing he’s done to them is to add a brass extra round mag base to them, his all land base first-not feedlips first. Mine do the same, but I use an aluminum extra mag base on mine. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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| My other Sig is a Steyr. |
Maybe the issue is that most are using a 9mm cartridge in a magazine designed around 45 Auto dimensions. When I was converting Glocks to .38 Super, the magazines did not want to play nice for a cartridge they weren't designed for. | |||
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