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Night shooting with a red dot? Login/Join 
The Ice Cream Man
posted
Anyone tried low light shooting with one? We played with one, and it didn’t work very well.
 
Posts: 4886 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
Why didn't it work well?
What was the problem?
I know that looking through an optical sight and picking up the target under low light conditions can be more difficult for some reason than in normal lighting.




7/93
 
Posts: 45714 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate more than just "it didn't work well". What specific problems did you encounter?


Note that low-light shooting is where manual dot brightness adjustment trumps automatic brightness adjustment.

Some red dots tout their ability to auto-adjust the dot's brightness to ambient light. The problem starts when you're in a dark area, and the dot brightness goes down. But then when you flip on your WML to illuminate an area in front of you, the optic is still in a darker area and the lowered brightness dot gets washed out by the bright white light on the target.

Therefore, I'm not a fan of relying on auto brightness. I manually set my red dots' brightness level to still be visible even with the WML on or when in bright sunlight, and leave them there.
 
Posts: 29238 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
posted Hide Post
It was just black. We couldn’t see anything through the glass at all.

It was a trijicon RMR
 
Posts: 4886 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
Pitch black out, or any weapon lights?





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 25492 | Location: dughouse | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
Again, need more info. By "it was just black" do you mean you couldn't see the target, the dot, or both?

If you couldn't see the dot, you probably have an auto-adjusting red dot. The dot was likely there, but would be dim due to the dark ambient light. Perhaps it was simply too dim for your eyes to pick up easily. Try manually turning the brightness up. Or your grip/draw/presentation sucked, and therefore your dot was hopelessly lost from your field of view due to improper orientation of the handgun.

If you couldn't see the target, well... did you utilize a flashlight? Even without a red dot, a weaponlight or handheld light is pretty much a necessity for low light target identification and accurate shooting. But see my above caveat about lights + auto-adjusting brightness in dark areas.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RogueJSK,
 
Posts: 29238 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
How familiar are you with using a pistol red dot? If I do not have a good draw I will sometimes have issues finding the dot and will have to chase it in the window.

Could you see the iron sights? Going back to a point of aim issue of not pointing where you think you are.

Was the brightness manually adjusted? Could it have been turn off or on a night vision setting?


 
Posts: 5077 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA | Registered: February 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by gpbst3:
How familiar are you with using a pistol red dot? If I do not have a good draw I will sometimes have issues finding the dot and will have to chase it in the window.


This is the big leaning curve for red dots. If you're sloppy with your grip/draw/presentation, you'll waste a bunch of time hunting for the red dot, something that's further exacerbated by low light conditions with fewer visual handgun alignment references.

Red dots force you to focus on cleaning up your fundamentals to ensure that you have a solid grip/draw/presentation. You have to train to the point where you're able to instinctively draw and present properly, without thinking about it, and the dot will appear in your eyeline.

A crutch you can use when first starting with a handgun red dot is to utilize the outer box of the optic to "frame" the target like a picture frame, which generally will at least put the red dot somewhere within your field of view. It's not a long-term solution/replacement for cleaning up your grip/draw/presentation, but it can potentially give you a leg-up when first starting out if you're seriously struggling with hunting around for the dot.

Many handgun shooters, even moderately experienced ones, have a bad habit of being sloppy with their initial grip/draw/presentation and just using their sight alignment to correct for it at the very end of their presentation. Red dots don't allow you to cheat like that.
 
Posts: 29238 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Member"
Picture of cas
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
It was just black. We couldn’t see anything through the glass at all.


Yeah, shinning a light in your eye in the dark will do that. Big Grin

It needs to be VERY dim, or you need to light up the target.


_____________________________________________________
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 19719 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
Can’t say much more besides what has been already said.

I’ve got a lot of time on a dot in low light/no light and found it to be pretty easy and straight forward.

Not all Trijicon RMRs are created equal. The RMR06 and RMR07 are low light/no light friendly.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 36029 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by gpbst3:
How familiar are you with using a pistol red dot? If I do not have a good draw I will sometimes have issues finding the dot and will have to chase it in the window.


This is the big leaning curve for red dots. If you're sloppy with your grip/draw/presentation, you'll waste a bunch of time hunting for the red dot, something that's further exacerbated by low light conditions with fewer visual handgun alignment references.

Red dots force you to focus on cleaning up your fundamentals to ensure that you have a solid grip/draw/presentation. You have to train to the point where you're able to instinctively draw and present properly, without thinking about it, and the dot will appear in your eyeline.


I have a dot on my 365 and I debate about removing it. My draw needs to darn near perfect or there is no dot in the window. On the other hand my Glock 17 is spot on every time.

OP you never said what gun you were using either.


 
Posts: 5077 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA | Registered: February 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by gpbst3:
I have a dot on my 365 and I debate about removing it. My draw needs to darn near perfect or there is no dot in the window. On the other hand my Glock 17 is spot on every time.


Subcompact gun = small optic = smaller field of view = less room for error.

Also, smaller gun = smaller grip = increased chance of improper grip during draw.


I'd venture an assumption that you also probably have more training time behind your G17 too. Even pre-red-dot. Thus your fundamentals are cleaner and more deeply ingrained than your P365.
 
Posts: 29238 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
It was just black. We couldn’t see anything through the glass at all.

It was a trijicon RMR


Try not looking "through" the glass. Focus on your target, both eyes open, and bring the gun up so that the dot is between you and your target within your line of sight. Put the dot over your target and take your shots. This will enable you to make hits on your target even if you can't see through the glass, and having both eyes open will allow you to continue to see your target, even with the gun up in front of your face. It will work fine for practical shooting at common defensive distances, and you'll likely be surprised how precise you can be.

Personally, when working nights, I keep my dot set to a brightness level that allows me to see it clearly in full sunlight. This time of year, my shift starts well before sundown and ends as the sun is coming up, so I have to be able to function in both environments. Yes, it blooms a bit in the dark but it's still plenty precise enough for practical work, and I don't have to worry about losing the dot if somebody flips the lights on.
 
Posts: 6008 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of ALLEGRO1957
posted Hide Post
When I moved from G23.3 to my current P320c RX, I worked diligently on my "presentation" from holster to target acquisition. As mentioned earlier in this thread, a MOS requires consistent skill in muzzle-direction vs sight-picture.

It is an easy skill to acquire. Three words of advice: Practice, Practice and Practice.


Be a productive citizen but always be prepared
 
Posts: 41 | Registered: October 14, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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