The range I use is a members-only club, and in addition to various membership/ product sales throughout the year, they hold an annual Open House to both recruit new members while thanking existing members with hot dogs, burgers, and various sales and drawing giveways. This year's event was held over the weekend, and the big drawing giveaway was a P365 SAS.

The club is a SIG Mastershop Dealer and every year they use this event to showcase various SIG firearms and products... pistols, rifles, optics, ammo, suppressors, etc...are all brought in by SIG reps, along with all the usual catalogs, promo material, and SIG swag. In past years they've actually brought these display items in tow-behind walk-in demo trailers, but this year the reps just lugged them into the sales area in large TSA approved containers.

This year's event also included a seminar on the SIG FCUs and various SIG factory and aftermarket grip modules and accessories. I try to maintain a passing familiarity with newer products, but truth be told, my interest and focus is on the classic P series DA/SA, DAK, and DAO actions...but I'm a gun guy too and a realist as well, and I see a day in the future when health or physical challenges may force me to transition to a lighter smaller platform, and (shudder ) perhaps a striker-fired platform. As best I can, I try to follow a sampling of the forum's P250/ P320/ P365 threads, to have a basic knowledge of these modular platforms, but it's tough to keep up with SIG's various configurations, and nothing beats actually watching the various FCU's being disassembled and seeing the various grip modules, slides, barrels, and optics being assembled, so the FCU seminar was a real interest for me.

My errands ran way longer than I had expected and I arrived later than planned at the club.

Two SIG reps. attended the event, a SIG sales rep., and a SIG certified trainer and armorer. The SIG sales rep. was behind the sales counter with the various display guns they brought, so I chatted for a good while with him, while the Trainer/ Armorer was working with a couple on the range. Eventually I mentioned interest in taking the seminar and there seemed to be some confusion on his and the range staffs part as to whether a seminar would be held, when it would take place, and what exactly the seminar included. Thinking that the lanes would be busy and that the seminar would be classroom only, I didn't bring any of my shooting gear, but then one range staffer mentioned that some range time might be included in the seminar. I was bounced around between the SIG reps and range staff for quite a while before a decision was finally made to hold it.

Range ownership/ management was probably freewheeling the seminar times based on event attendance and interest. The emails I received never mentioned specific seminar times, what the seminar included, or that the club was charging a fee for the seminar. I'm not opposed to paying for a professional class or seminar, I've done it countless times, but I would prefer to know these kind of details before showing up. The first seminar start time I was given was pushed back as the Trainer/ Armorer was still working with customers on the range.

Eventually, after we finally got in the classroom, the Trainer/Armorer explained that he had already held one seminar earlier, so I think range management assumed seminars were done for the day, but to his credit, when I showed up with interest, the trainer/armorer was willing to hold another one, and as it turned out I was the only participant and ended up with 1 on 1 personal instruction. He was a great instructor, willing to answer both my FCU and non-FCU SIG questions, and generous with his time and info.

It was a very informal setting, just two guys sitting across from each other with a bunch of guns and accessories, and while he had his armorer's manual open and we referenced it a few times, this was not an armorer level certification course, but more of an intro and end-user demo, from a non-LEO, non-military standpoint of a gun owner interested in disassembling or modifying their FCUs.

During the FCU demo he specifically reviewed the various safety design features, pointed out the two Sears and the Disconnector, how to remove/ replace the Manual Safety, how to remove/ replace the Trigger, and how to remove/ replace the Trigger Bar, how to remove or reposition various FCU pins and springs. as well as how the Take Down Lever rotation disables the Trigger in the FCU.

* Side note: I don't even know if it's possible to install a smaller caliber FCU in the .45 ACP grip module (I'm guessing not), but he did mention that SIG recommended against attempting this over safety concerns, as the trigger continues to remain operational when the Take Down Lever is rotated down in this configuration due to excessive clearance between the FCU and the grip module.

- In comparing the P320 and P365 FCUs, although they are very similar designs he believed the P320 FCU was much more robust and easier to work on, and the P365 FCU was a bit more "delicate".

As we didn't follow any specific syllabus, we covered a LOT of ground. I could have talked to both the SIG Sales rep. and the SIG Trainer/ Armorer for hours more, but these guys really hustled and had already given me @ 3 hours of their time during the course of their very long hectic day at the event, so I decided to 'pull the plug' and let them wind down, pack up all their gear, and head out to dinner and back to their hotel room.

If anyone has an interest in this FCU seminar and has the opportunity to take it, I'd recommend it.

I mentioned being a forum member and, on a couple topics, I requested and was given permission to post the info they shared, but in a few cases I'm not sure if that same permission applied. These were two really solid helpful guys and I'm not looking to put them in any kind of a jackpot, so I'm going to post some info they shared while withholding a couple details, and I'm going to refer to them by their job titles.

SSR= SIG Sales Rep.

STA= SIG certified Trainer/ Armorer


per SSR:

- There are currently @ 3 million P320s in civilian hands and SIG manufacturers @ 50 K/ month.

- SIG manufactures P365 @ 70 K/ month.

- SIG invested @ $50 Million in new manufacturing machines and infrastructure in 2020.

- SIG currently at @ half a million sq. feet of manufacturing floor space, while working toward a goal of 1 million sq. feet of manufacturing floor space.

- SIG has adopted the position that unless/ until there is an official ATF rule change they will continue to produce stabilized braced pistols, and as market demand is strong for these, SIG will continue to allocate a significant percentage of their manufacturing capacity to this configuration.

- He explained that one positive outcome from SIG Germany closing was that they owned the "royalty" of the X-5/ X-6 line, but with their doors now closed it cleared the way for SIG U.S. to take over manufacturing the line... Yeah, I know...just passing on what was said.

- A few years ago SIG owned @ %42 of the U.S. LE market, with Glock at @ %52. He stated that SIG now owns @ %52 of U.S. LE market w/ Glock @ %44 of US LE market. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just reporting it...


per STA:

- He explained that the various work guns assigned to him had FCUs that were laser engraved with his employee number on them, and showed me one. He has been with SIG long enough that he has one of the original 320 FCUs in the original finish with his number on it.

- A SIG P365 in .380 ACP has been developed and manufactured, but SIG is holding off on announcing or promoting it, due to the market availability shortage in this caliber.

- He let me handle one of his P365s in an aftermarket aluminum grip module. I like it! I found I also preferred the weight and feel of the X-5 Legion and the AXG.

- A P320 in 10mm, using a .45 ACP FCU has been developed and manufactured. If I'm behind the curve and you P320 aficionados are already aware of this, then I apologize.

- Previously, SIG outsourced their Cerakote work to a nearby local outfit, but now "has built an oven you could drive a VW through" which he predicts will increase throughput and flexibility, while improving the quality and uniformity.

- He explained that SIG sometimes trades ammo components with other ammo manufacturers. SIG is now producing %100 of their own rifle brass. SIG will begin making their own primers.

- There is no chance of a SIG MPX in any other caliber as market demands 9 mm for the foreseeable future. Yes, we pretty much all had heard this before, but I felt obligated to both ask and to also plant the seed that there remains an interest in this option. There is a little more to this subject, but I was asked not to mention it.

- When I mentioned that I was a Classic P series fan and hoped that SIG wouldn't phase them out, he acknowledged the continued market interest and thought that not only would SIG NOT phase them out anytime soon, but he mentioned there was discussion of updating the Classic P series with more modern and modular features, with an eye towards parts standardization. The first feature they are considering changing on the Classic P series is the Magazine Catch to the SIG Pro style, which some believe is easier to swap sides on and also reduces the possibility of catastrophic frame damage with this style of Mag. Catch. During the conversation he did mention that there were some welders that could TIG weld and build up these type of catastrophic failures, which I was surprised to hear as I've never seen any forum member with this kind of damage ever find a competent welder for this type of 'fix', so when I pressed him on what outfit was doing this type of repair he didn't recall specifics, but seemed quite certain that there was some welder repairing this type of damage.

- The SIG Suppressor division had been competing for space with the Rifle division, but is now being relocated into their own separate production space, which he viewed as an improvement.

- Admittedly, this one surprised me. I assumed that SIG viewed their designs as proprietary and would aggressively defend against other companies producing customized variations, but he said just the opposite, that SIG welcomed custom aftermarket support on items such as grip modules and slides. I'm guessing these customized aftermarket parts options help to promote the appeal of SIG's basic OEM designs and increase the number of potential configurations, while freeing up some of SIG's manufacturing capacity for other OEM products. As a result, he says SIG sells OEM rudimentary milled slide blanks to these aftermarket custom vendors, who then perform final milling, including optics cuts, and final finish to their own specific custom product configurations.


Lastly, while demonstrating the P320/ P365 configuration options, he broke out his notepad and jumped on the SIG website to demo a new way to see build-configurations before ordering. He explained that SIG just rolled out a new service and website features, called the P320 Concierge Service, and the P320 and P365 Design Studios.

The P320 Concierge Service basically allows customers to custom design a P320 around the Custom Works FCU to their own specifications from a list of optional features, while flagging incompatible options (similar to the SIG Tread) then personalize it with custom laser engraving. After which, the Concierge P320 is inspected, tested, and shipped with 3 mags. and a challenge coin in a special case, directly from SIG to the customer's FFL. The description doesn't specifically mention this, but the website includes a picture of a test target, so this package may include this as well.

SIG P320 Concierge Service

There are also a couple additional website features for designing P320 and P365 custom configurations, then ordering them from the SIG store for users that want to assemble their own components. Seems like a dandy way to see what configurations are compatible and what finishes look good before actually ordering them.

Custom Works P320 Studio

Custom Works P365 Studio

Edited: to add info, change some verbage and terminology, correct grammar, and edit to reduce length.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Modern Day Savage,

Thanks for sharing! There's some encouraging info there, and it sounds like SIG is really working to expand and overcome some of the recent shortage issues, which is awesome. I'm particularly excited about them manufacturing their own primers, and that 10mm P320 which I keep hearing about but not seeing.

Upgrades and modifications to the classic line could be interesting as well...I'll be watching for that.

^^^^^^^^^
Yup. He mentioned having a background in the optics field (he's a hunter), and he also apparently helps out on the ammo division side as well, so when he mentioned SIG getting into primer production I was pretty stoked as well.

Agreed on the P320 10 mm as well. I professed my fondness of the .357 SIG cartridge and he agreed and said he was a fan as well and had several cases of it, and when I asked him about the future of the cartridge his best guess was that while there was no doubt that the 9 mm was the top market demand, he thought SIG would keep the .357 SIG in their line-up.

It could go either way on the Classic P Series updates, so I'm ok with a few modifications, but I hope they don't get too crazy trying to reinvent the wheel.

Sounds like a great time!

I'm pretty sure GG has repaired a few broken frames with the mag release damage.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Sounds like a great time!

I'm pretty sure GG has repaired a few broken frames with the mag release damage.

Well, if anyone could repair that particular catastrophic failure it would be Bruce and the GG crew.

I've read conjecture on the potential for this particular repair, but I have yet to see any forum member actually post before and after pics, or even just a verbal report on such a repair.

If there is such a post on the forum I'd appreciate it if someone could point me to it.

this is a fantastic update. Thank you for taking the time to share it.

This is fascinating, thanks for writing it up for us.

Yes, thank you!
Very interesting information.

Much appreciated!

Just trying to do my part to "contribute to the cause", so I'm glad some of you found this info of interest.

Honestly, I'm kicking myself now for not being better prepared before talking to the SIG reps or taking the seminar. If I'd known beforehand the level of access I was going to have to these guys I would've boned up on the latest scuttlebutt, gripes, and product news, and would've asked for forum input on what questions I should've asked...maybe next year.

I've edited my original (sloppy) post to clean it up a little, and I've also added a couple additional thoughts and takeaways from the seminar.