This is a full size P220R. It ran right the first time I shot it, probably put 100 rds through it. Since then it's been a nightstand gun. But no more. Today I had a failure to feed at least once per mag. I brought five mags, four of them SIG, one ACT. I have a lot of P220s, so I just throw a few mags in the range bag. I have never had this problem with any of my other P220s, so it's not the mag.
The FTFs were not the kind where I could just hit the rear of the slide with the heel of my hand and it'd go back into battery. It felt like the the round was getting stuck on the inner top side of the barrel, but the rounds weren't scratched up or deformed when I pulled them out. Is this indicative of a weak recoil spring? If so, what't the right weight I need for a replacement?
Posts: 3772 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005
So the gun is basically new, correct? Low round count?
If this is the case I am thinking the ammo isn’t giving the slide enough velocity to go ALL the way back and it’s not having the oomf to return to battery.
Try different ammo Make sure you have a really good grip Run a box or two of hotter / defensive ammo and see if it loosens it up. Make sure the extractor is free to move over the round. Might be gunked up with something or have a broken spring
It just sounds like a new gun, that is tight and has a strong recoil spring and needs a little hotter ammo to loosen it up.
"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
Posts: 7982 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002
Ammo was Freedom Munitions, 230gr., new, not reman.
I think the gun was a police turn-in, but looks very lightly shot. Again, no issues the first time I ran it. I don't recall what ammo I was using then, but I've never had an issue with Freedom Munitions in my other 45s and I have about 12 of them.
Posts: 3772 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005
If the extractor is moving freely I’d give different ammo a go.
That gun may not like that ammo or it’s a bad batch or something. Again the gun MIGHT just need to loosen up a bit but I’d try different ammo.
Also if you haven’t give it a good cleaning and lube. (I know this is the gun guys version of have you rebooted your gun ) but it might very well help. Try running it wetter so to speak.
"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
Posts: 7982 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002
Try some ammo from a reputable maker if you can. Freedom has apparently gone downhill if you take this guy’s word for it. Watch for lots of jams in the first few attempts with freedom munitions.
Check some of your fired cases from that ammo. I got a batch of Freedom Munitions 45ACP several years ago that had the powder contaminated with oil. Fired cases had a sludge in them from the oil. My symptoms were very similar to what you are describing. I contacted FM, and it was confirmed that a bad lot of ammo had made it out of the factory. They made it right.
Posts: 6352 | Location: East Texas | Registered: February 20, 2008
Yes, they are small primers and I did check the spent casings. All looked fine. And I put about the same number of rounds of the same ammo yesterday through my Dan Wesson Valor and it ran perfectly, never a hiccup. I can't remember when or where I bought this ammo, but I think it was a Backpage deal several years ago. I'm almost out that batch of ammo and probably ran a good 900 rds of it through my other .45s and never had an issue with it.
Posts: 3772 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005
How is the crimp around the case mouth where it meets the bullet? My brother had some cheap Herter's 10mm that had basically no taper crimp and a sharp ledge at the case mouth where it met the bullet. That ledge was hanging up on the chamber of his 1911. We put it though a crimp die to taper it down just a bit, and after doing that it all ran fine.
Posts: 9471 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006
Ok, I can't get back to the range for another week or so, but I'll bring the last box of Freedom Munitions I have and then a few other brands and I'll bring my two best workhorse P220s, as well as the problem one.
Posts: 3772 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005
Long time lurker, rare poster here. I enjoy seeing the resolutions evolve real time here. I am eager to see what the OP finds at the next visit to the range. Thanks for sharing your talents SIGforum.
Posts: 8 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: March 15, 2010
Based on its being a P220R, I assume that the magazines have the indentation/dimple at the top rear to keep the next round down from moving forward when chambering the top cartridge. If so, years ago I saw a problem with certain cartridge cases whose rims were slightly thicker than normal and would hang up on that indentation and prevent chambering. It only occurred with one type of brass, and not all of that particular brand (Fiocchi, if I recall correctly). Although it’s a long shot, that’s something to consider. A possible way to check if it’s the problem is to eject the rounds from the magazine by just pushing forward on the case head to ensure that they feed freely and don’t hang up.
It’s possible that only a small percentage of the cartridges have a case rim spec problem, and would explain why the failures are intermittent. The best way to check feeding from the magazine would be to use the rounds that didn’t chamber properly when you were shooting.
If I interpret the Internet photos of the ACT magazines correctly, they don’t have the indentation, so it would be good to know if you had any problems with that particular magazine.
► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush
Posts: 47868 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002
Originally posted by sigfreund: Based on its being a P220R, I assume that the magazines have the indentation/dimple at the top rear to keep the next round down from moving forward when chambering the top cartridge. If so, years ago I saw a problem with certain cartridge cases whose rims were slightly thicker than normal and would hang up on that indentation and prevent chambering. It only occurred with one type of brass, and not all of that particular brand (Fiocchi, if I recall correctly). Although it’s a long shot, that’s something to consider. A possible way to check if it’s the problem is to eject the rounds from the magazine by just pushing forward on the case head to ensure that they feed freely and don’t hang up.
It’s possible that only a small percentage of the cartridges have a case rim spec problem, and would explain why the failures are intermittent. The best way to check feeding from the magazine would be to use the rounds that didn’t chamber properly when you were shooting.
If I interpret the Internet photos of the ACT magazines correctly, they don’t have the indentation, so it would be good to know if you had any problems with that particular magazine.
The ACT mag does not have that indentation and it's easier to load. Though I'm pretty sure it happened with every mag, ACT included. I will be very meticulous in documenting ammo brand and mags next time out.
Posts: 3772 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005
Another thing that can affect chambering is the overall length (nose to case base) of the cartridge, either too long or too short. Too long with a P220 is unlikely because as I recall, proper length cartridges are a very close fit in the magazines as they are, but it would be something I would check if having similar problems. Again, it’s unlikely, but you should be able to check lengths by just comparing a selection of the rounds.
► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush
Posts: 47868 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002
Ok, headed to the range today. I'm bringing the problem P220R, a (super rock solid) P220 Carry and a W. German P220, non-rail. Also bringing my oldest Series 70 Commander, which can be picky about ammo too. I'll run what Freedom I have left through those three and some Federal through the problem P220R. Will report back in a few hours.
BTW, I didn't put calipers on them, but I used my good glasses and looked at a few types of ammos side by side and could not tell a difference in height or crimping.
Posts: 3772 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005
I think it was the ammo, though the Freedom Munitions worked ok in the other pistols. It FTF once in the P220R from last week and failed to eject on the last round in the Commander. Surprisingly, the Freedom ammo was a lot hotter than the Federal. The bang and recoil were noticeably more intense. But I ran plenty of Federal through the P220R and it ran perfectly. I think I can return it to nightstand duty with Federal HydrShoks, though my P220 Carry has a nicer trigger and is just as accurate.
Posts: 3772 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005
) but it might very well help. Try running it wetter so to speak.
