I've got a qualification that I need to pass coming up here in about a month and a half, and I'm sweating it a bit. It's basically our standard LE qualification course (5 stages out to 25 yards), with an added 50 yard component. I've been prepping for this for a month or so now, and on a good day I can pass it...on a bad day, well, let's just say at this point I hope I don't have a bad day.

This isn't bullseye shooting with tuned triggers and a 9-inch sight radius...the job's got to be done with a bone stock P320 carry.

To practice, I've been shooting a steel silhouette at 50 yards. I like the immediate feedback that I get from the steel, and with the silhouette being approximately the same size as the scoring area of the qualification target, I feel it's a pretty good indicator of the required proficiency. I've also been shooting a consistency target at 3 yards that has some 1 inch and 2 inch circles in varying patterns. It's pretty eye-opening that I can shoot 6/6 on the 1" targets, shoot a few 2" ones, and then throw rounds an inch off of the following 1" one.

What I'm finding is that my two primary hangups are as follows:

1. Maintaining the mental discipline to focus on having perfect fundamentals each and every time. If you try to get away with stuff at 50 yards that you can let slide at 15 or even 25, you're going to throw rounds off the target.

2. In some way related to the first one...Physical fatigue. I find that at the beginning of a range session I tend to perform better than I do when I'm 100-150 rounds in. The arms start to get tired, my sight picture shakes more, and everything starts to open up a bit.

I'm looking for advice. Any drills or techniques that you use to challenge yourself on the fundamentals, or anything else specifically geared towards improving long-range handgun work would be great.

I realize that a month and a half is probably not going to be enough to undertake a serious upper-body fitness regimen, but if anybody has any exercises that they've used to aid their shooting stability and endurance, I'd love to hear them, too. I'm not in horrible shape, but I'm more of a runner than a lifter.

How much time is allotted for the 50 yard drill? If you are now hitting consistently at 50 yards, just keep practicing. This alone may increase the stamina you need to complete the drill.
I used to use a plate rack at 50 yards as a fun challenge (non qual) for our annual pistol competition. To win the stage, you had to clean off the plates and quickest time wins. Miss a plate and you lose the stage. Forces you to shoot accurately but at speed. Can you try a similar setup?

Lots of dry-fire. Get used to the trigger and muscle memory.

Even if you don’t like lasers, slap one on the front and watch the movement as you release the trigger. If that dot is bouncing around, you need to keep practicing.

Dry fire
Dry fire
Dry fire

Don't lie to yourself when you're dry firing.

How big is the target?
Now, "Optically speaking" if you're standing on the firing line, how big does the target at 50 yds look to you?
The size of a dime? a quarter?
Use that size target at 1 yard when you're dry firing.

Strength: You need some forearm strength to grip the pistol and pull the trigger. You also need not only strength but muscle endurance from your chest and shoulders to hold the pistol out.

Take a look at some Kettle Bell routines. Look them up on YouTube, you'll be surprised! Also, take a 10-12 lb weight and just hold it out, much like you're holding a pistol. Keep holding that out there. then hold it out there just a little longer... you'll feel that nice burn in those shoulder muscles!

I am a bullseye shooter. I also took a course from JLJones and Bruce Gray 7 years ago where they taught us to "prep the trigger" to be able to shoot a service pistol with precision, such as 50 yard standing two handed.

Learn, first in dry fire, how far you can pull the trigger before the gun goes off. Then, when you are moving the gun to the proper sight alignment, move the trigger to that position and then the last little bit of movement is all that is needed to release the shot. Here is a short video I made a few years ago to demonstrate.

https://youtu.be/EyRJerXq3sw

The idea is to learn to shoot a 5 lb trigger pull pistol the same as you could a 2 lb trigger, without moving the gun during the final bit of trigger movement.

Note that I don't claim to be a good bullseye shooter.

Joe

I'm no master shooter, but I have discovered recently that when attempting long-range pistol shots, I do much worse when I hold the gun out in front of me for >4 seconds before taking the shot. I think it becomes a mix of muscle fatigue & shot anticipation that causes me to miss.

Try starting each shot from compressed ready. Press the gun out, get your sight picture, and make the shot. If you're too wobbly to take the shot, pull back to compressed ready, breathe in & out, and try again.

My suggestion is to find a good instructor who can help you with your technique and then dry practice.

The trick is to find an instructor who is really good and doesn’t just think he’s good.

Note, just because someone is good at something doesn’t mean they can also teach others to do it well.

Also, get your eyes checked. You may have trouble focusing on the front sight and not realize it.

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How much time is allotted for the 50 yard drill?

70 seconds. I'm not terribly concerned about the time limits. I tend to shoot too fast, if anything.

quote:

The size of a dime? a quarter?
Use that size target at 1 yard when you're dry firing.

I like this idea. I've been doing dry fire practice with a shell casing balanced on the front sight, but I've been more concerned with overall stability than target acquisition while doing it. Putting the two together definitely can't hurt. The weight idea sounds like a good one, too.

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Also, get your eyes checked. You may have trouble focusing on the front sight and not realize it.

Yeah, my eyes suck. I can focus on the front sight ok, but the target and the rear sight are pretty blurry, and I have difficulty getting perfect sight alignment, especially when the light gets funky.

Lots of good ideas here...keep 'em coming.

We had a couple of Courses on the Hwy Patrol with 50 yd targets. The thought being we are wide open spaces, so may be your engagement distances. On Range Day/Practice sessions we could even shoot steel out to 100 yds.

I think you hit it yourself with #1 on Your list. Sight alignment HAS to be perfect, with the fairly rough sights on a Service pistol. That is what I'd work on , as well as good trigger control.

In the 1970's I used to hunt woodchucks with revolvers. Stalked to get into pistol range. Used a M57 6" .41 Mag and a S&W M28 6" .357 Mag. I was able to get reasonably consistent 90% hits at the longer 50 yard shots. Sweet memories, I was thirty something back then and still had hair and eyes.

Also taught NRA courses at my LGC for 25 years. Learned a lot from the students I taught. If you want to improve your shooting, try teaching. It's a two-way street. You learn from your students. Fundamentals matter. They matter even more at long distances.

Finally, a relevant anecdote. I shot with a defensive shooting group at my LGC. We stressed fundamentals. Most of our shooting was standard 7, 10 and 15 yard distances. One day we moved the group (about 12 guys) back to 50 yards. Hung a 15" steel gong up. Head game...half weren't hitting. With a little bit of coaching, everybody was hitting at least 9/10 by the end of the session.

At the time, nearly everybody was using 1911's. Small correction on the vertical for bullet drop (raise front sight in notch). More important was the "wobble zone". Humans CANNOT hold a gun absolutely motionless. At distance, many shooters try...which is why you see too much time spent before the trigger press. OK, what's the solution?

With good fundamentals, each shooter has a "wobble zone" where the aligned sights are tracing a consistent circle on the target. Better shooters have smaller wobble zones. As long as the trigger press is good, your group will not exceed the size of the zone. Rather than attempting to hold the gun still (an impossibility), the shooter focuses on a clean trigger press when the properly aligned sights moves across the desired POI.

While it may seem counter intuitive at first blush, the concept/technique does work.

A sharp front sight on a fuzzy target in a fuzzy rear notch is adequate. 50 yards is all about trigger control. I attended a course where the instructor taped over our sights and had us very slowly and carefully apply proper trigger fundamentals and soon all shooters were shooting kill zone groups at 25 yards with no sights at all and the instructor could continue to get consistent center mass hits at 50. Use of time is also very important- if you fire the required number of rounds needed in the time limit and have more than a few seconds left you rushed. I see lots of very good uspsa run and gun guys ( fast and sloppy on sights and trigger can still result in decent hits inside 15 yards) that are hopeless beyond 25 yards.

Pistol shooting is a lot like being able to drive a stick shift car really well- knowing what gear to be in for a given condition when to slow down or speed up based on the situation at hand

You mention 70 seconds but not how many 50 yard rounds. I assume open sights and two hands standing. You mention 100-150 shots. You will learn a lot more from 10 good shots than from 100 bad shots. Same with dryfires. 10 good ones is better than many bad ones. Train what to do at the gun. On the target is only the result of that. Bad work at the gun will be bad at the target. Learn what you need to see and feel at the gun.

Keep your eye on the front sight before during and after the fall of the hammer. Let the recoil be what moves the sight from your eye, temporarily. The sight should come right back naturally.

Apply what you learn to any other discipline. Results will be good.

Joe L - good to see you around again. I trust you are doing well

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You mention 70 seconds but not how many 50 yard rounds.

It's 12 rounds at the 50. 60 rounds total.

I appreciate everybody's feedback here...I had a chance to go shoot today for a little bit and put some of the ideas you shared into practice. I put about 60 rounds downrange...only 4 outside the 8 ring (full points for anything inside the 8), and those were all in the 7 ring. I'm going to keep practicing and doing dry-fire work as I know I can do better, but it was encouraging to see some improvement.

FWIW, one of the classes I have taken at TDI Ohio has a drill where I was able to make 50 yard hits on a 10" or 12" steel, much to my amazement.

Sight alignment, trigger control and breathing were all covered in an earlier class.

Everyone started at 5 yards and moved back when they hit the plate, 5 yards at a time.

Now, before I took part in this drill, I would have told you that "no, I cannot hit a 10" or 12" plate at 50 yards". hell, I can hardly see a 10" or 12" plate at 50 yards.

Much to my surprise, I was able to accomplish the task, as did the 5 students in my rotation.

I now have the confidence that I can in fact hit a small object at 50 yards with my P-220.

If you don't have a laser and want to do some dry fire work with one, I will send you my Crimson Trace rail laser to practice dry fire with. Nothing more telling than watching that laser bounce around when you're dry firing that trigger. Really makes you focus. I dry fire it with the laser on the screw of a light switch cover plate. Anyway, you are welcome to it. I can overnight it. Just return it after you pass.

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Originally posted by Cobra21:
If you don't have a laser and want to do some dry fire work with one, I will send you my Crimson Trace rail laser to practice dry fire with. Nothing more telling than watching that laser bounce around when you're dry firing that trigger. Really makes you focus. I dry fire it with the laser on the screw of a light switch cover plate. Anyway, you are welcome to it. I can overnight it. Just return it after you pass.

Wow, thanks for the extremely generous offer! I have a buddy locally who can loan me one, so I won't need to take you up on it, but I very much appreciate you being willing to do that! It's a good idea, too...I'm definitely going to give it a try.

Excellent suggestions above. I will add this. Because the gun and sights will wobble over the target, the tendency is for one to try to force the shot to go off when the sights are perfectly aligned with the desired aim point. The result is that one (at least I do this) are likely to move the trigger too aggressively and move the gun as the shot is released. It is much better to just "accept the wobble" and think more about a smooth trigger release rather than forcing the shot. This is really important single hand standing, as in a bullseye match in Slow Fire.

So keep that in mind. Smooth trigger release or nothing else matters.

Joe