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| Member |
Details, please. Why confused? ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
Interesting. I wonder if we'd still have the Beretta if it had gone through a similar transition early on in its service career. Not that it was as easily modified, but any early tweaking the design went through happened before it was adopted. The Colt, IIRC, seems to have gotten a lot of military input at a relatively embryonic phase. | |||
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| Member |
I suppose one might say the similar things occurred with the transition from the Brigadier to the later M9 stretched out over a lot longer period of time. Going from SA single-stack to SA/DA double-stack. I guess that happens in the development of many/most service weapons, really, as many are simply the evolutionary end or near end of a design that previously was not fit for general service use. Some are straight-up designed for the services, of course. The Sten comes to mind even tho it was basically a cheapened version of the Lanchester which was itself a knockoff of the MP28II which was a refinement of the MP18I. But the Sten was itself in its production form purpose-built for the services and then went thru its own changes subsequent to adoption with almost none before adoption. ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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Still finding my way |
When that pistol and the 19X were first announced a lot of folks on the board asked what the purpose of the short slide and full grip was and said that Glock missed the boat while the same guys fawned over the P320 Carry. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
The 19X/Carry style guns aren't all that ideal for concealed carriers, which is the lens that most folks were viewing them through. That's where much of the confusion/derision stemmed from. (Especially when companies attach monikers like "Carry" to a gun that isn't as well-suited to concealed carry.) But certainly they have their niche as LE/Mil duty guns, where concealability isn't really a factor, and the shorter slide has some advantages that outweigh the minor disadvantages, compared to a full length slide. | |||
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| Still finding my way |
Which always tickled me as the G45/G19x has the same grip length as a P228/P229. | |||
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| Member |
Great post. I have carried a slew of pistols over the years but the one that is with me every day now is a Ruger EC9S. Flat. Accurate. I can hit with it. You are right. A lot of pistols coined "carry" guns really aren't. ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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Member |
Too much marketing for me.... but I suppose the folks at Sig, Glock, Ruger and etc know what they are doing to make sales. Seems everything is about 'Carry' now. How many guns can one carry? I've too have gone through the list (excluding Glocks) For a while it was even a Ruger LC9 (the predecessor to the EC9) I'm hesitant to say I'm finally done but as for now I'm satisfied with old school... Sig P239. Oh, but I do have a P320 but will reserve it for 'fun' for the simple reason it has that Romeo sight on it. Which as I've said in other post, allowed me to shoot a perfect score on a very difficult timed shooting test. "My buddy said I was cheating using that gun" My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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| Member |
With the current P320 and Glock "Every which way but loose" model lineups, how could anybody get confused?  Drives old guys like me nuts. Confusing, but can't complain there aren't enough choices. ______________________ An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler | |||
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| Member |
Lol Glock had fewer stoppages, then Army stopped the test and declared sig the winner. Glock sued and lost. Didn't help Glock put forth a half ass entry. Seems the MHS was written for sig. | |||
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| Member |
This question may have already been asked and answered multiple times. If so, I apologize. Was there a specific reason the military wanted its new pistol in tan instead of the traditional black? Are they expecting the next few decades of conflict to be primarily in the desert? Does it flow better with their camo patterns? Irregardless, its a damn fine looking pistol. I really like the way they implemented the safety. Looks like an actual part of the gun and not just an afterthought. ___________________________________Sigforum - port in the fake news storm.____________Be kind to the Homeless. A lot of us are one bad decision away from there. | |||
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| Member |
I read somewhere that all new weapons are supposed to be issued in some sort of "Flat Dark Earth" which is flat but to my eyes neither dark nor the color of earth BUT must be better than black. Taking into consideration that sniper weapons were at times painted a camouflage pattern even in WW1, somebody should have been paying attention. A study was done by the Rhodesians in the mid-70's that indicated that hands, face and the weapon itself were the most distinctive and noticeable parts of a soldier in the bush and many Rhodesian weapons were thus painted a camo pattern. google some pix of troops operating in the desert. i remember back in the first gulf war seeing pix and video of us troops operating in the desert where the soldier could not really be detected but his rifle could be, and that from miles away! when a weapon has to be finished with something, it seems stupid to finish it in a color that is readily noticeable, such as black, a "color" that rarely exists in nature and stands out in almost every location on earth. something like the current color used on the m17/18 actually works pretty well in almost all terrains/backgrounds, or at least is superior to the traditional black. ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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| Member |
Ah. That makes sense. Thanks for the reply. ___________________________________Sigforum - port in the fake news storm.____________Be kind to the Homeless. A lot of us are one bad decision away from there. | |||
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| Member |
for a real multi-billion dollar idiot move, take a gander at the "blue" {UCP?} camo issued for years in the '00's. Now blue IS a color that stands out under all know terrains with the exception of some urban environments. but what a disaster that crap was, and at gigantic cost, too. they have since come to their sense. as a tax payer, i was angry at its selection. but far worse, i seriously wonder how many men were killed or wounded because of it. would make an interesting study. it's horrible. ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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| Only dead fish go with the flow  |
Sure it did  | |||
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| Fighting the good fight |
Yep. Tan/Brown/Earth tones are present in every terrain and location. (Barring something like the Artic during a blizzard.  )Whereas true black basically doesn't existing in nature. This is why the most effective "universal" camos tend to be brownish, tanish, and/or greenish-brownish dominant. (This was even understood 100 years ago, hence the adoption of khaki/drab/olive drab/etc. solid color uniforms by nearly every country.) In fact, tan/brown dedicated desert camo uniforms tend to fare better across the majority of terrains when taken as a whole, as opposed to something like dedicated forest/jungle or dedicated urban camo, which do better than desert in their one specific terrain but worse than desert in all others. | |||
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| RTG Parts |
17+1 in the weapon and a pair of 21rd backup mags is how they are issued. Great set up with 60 rounds ready to go. Very impressed with my P320-M17. Overall configuration seems very well thought out. Ease of shooting, great trigger, great sights. I can't fault it at all. I was not expecting to be a fan but it's a great sidearm. NRA LIFE MEMBER - NSSF MEMBER www.RobertRTG.com for the best prices on HK, AK, MG42, Uzi parts and more. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
Wasn't there something about black showing up really well in night vision, whereas tan/FDE/whatever doesn't? | |||
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Member |
I really want one to use as a suppressor host. The M17 is awesome. I expect this one will be, too. _______________ #COMMUNISTMANBAD | |||
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| Freethinker |
As stated, true black is seldom seen in nature, and because of its strong contrast with other colors, it’s often the first thing that’s seen when scanning an area. I remember a report about various types of camouflage clothing conducted some years ago, and how the first thing about the wearer that was spotted were his black boots. Something I didn’t recognize until a couple of years ago is how well a disruptive camo pattern works to delay “seeing” an individual even at very close distances. During one exercise the role-playing team leader who was dressed in MultiCam crouched behind a counter, but was otherwise in plain view in a school classroom. When I quickly peeked over the counter, the disruptive pattern of his clothing caused a brief, but noticeable delay in my identifying him as an armed individual. That experience convinced me of the value of wearing such clothing even when its colors and patterns don’t blend into the background, such as in an urban setting. I.e., I believe it would be faster for a BG to pick up and track an officer making a room entry who was dressed all in black than in a camo outfit. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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