P320 Drop Safety in Question (Formerly DPD Recall thread)

August 07, 2017, 09:38 AM

9mmdude

quote:
Originally posted by 18DAI:
How about.........just not dropping your handgun? In 48 years of handling, carrying and shooting handguns, I only recall "dropping" one.

In 2002 my issued HK USP40 fell out of its holster in the head. It landed on its hammer on the tile floor. No ND. One slightly bent hammer spur.

This appears to be much ado about.......nothing. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI

So with your argument if it had been the Sig you might be dead..........Brilliant.

August 07, 2017, 09:58 AM

ensigmatic

quote:
Originally posted by 18DAI:
How about.........just not dropping your handgun? In 48 years of handling, carrying and shooting handguns, I only recall "dropping" one.

Uhm...

I got nothin'

August 07, 2017, 10:16 AM

Biggy

quote:
Originally posted by Texaspoff:
quote:
Originally posted by 18DAI:
How about.........just not dropping your handgun? In 48 years of handling, carrying and shooting handguns, I only recall "dropping" one.

In 2002 my issued HK USP40 fell out of its holster in the head. It landed on its hammer on the tile floor. No ND. One slightly bent hammer spur.

This appears to be much ado about.......nothing. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI

The only problem now is, if only one or two of the thousands of 320's out there does this and someone is injured, Sig will have a huge problem on their hands. Especially with this video release.

Unfortunately, from a company standpoint, they must build products for the lowest common denominator. While most handgun folks aren't likely to drop their loaded pistols, Manufacturers, must take into consideration joe average butterfingers.

Cause he is the one that will cost them millions.

TXPO

Yeah, there will most likely be some hardware changes coming to this pistol, IMHO.

August 07, 2017, 10:54 AM

toto

So i've tried 4 times, i've loaded my p320FS with a snapcap and a little piece of tape on the false primer area. I've dropped the gun from hip's height like the videe in the same angle. There is no marks on the piece of tape so the striker has not moved and the safety has done his job.
I've loaded the snapcap after every test and pressed the trigger, the piece of tape was marked.
So for me the P320 is drop safe!
I suspect the testers to have disassembled the striker and not correctly reassemble it in a way tha the safety spring is not correctly reassembled....
The only difference is that i've dropped the gun on the carpet to not damage the side, but i can tell you that is hard on the gun too.

August 07, 2017, 10:55 AM

ukhayes

TTAG is the CNN of the gun world.

August 07, 2017, 11:14 AM

toto

No i suspect that they've disassembled and inspected the guns before the test and when they reassembled the striker they've not seen that the safety spring was not correctly reassembled. This little spring can come out of the safety or fall on the ground at the moment you insert the striker in his channel. As i've said it's a possibility not a fact.
I would be very surprised that Sig doesn't have dropped the P320 on every corners with their own tests, they are not a new gun maker and they know what must be done before releasing a gun aon the market.

August 07, 2017, 11:20 AM

Steve 22X

Questions re: the linked Omaha Outdoors video:

1) Does it appear at approx 2:01 in the video that they are dropping or deliberately throwing the pistol to the ground?
If throwing, it would help explain the broken beavertail on the X5 grip frame.
Reason I ask is, an object will rotate around its center of gravity as it falls.
In order to repeat the instances shown in the video where the pistol falls contacting the beavertail and back of the slide at the same time I would suspect considerable force (i.e. thrown to the ground) may have been used.
This may negatively slant the results.

2) Did someone 'work on' the pistols that fired prior to the test?

3) Did they really pull the bullets and powder from all of the "major manufacturer" duty, range and target ammo of different calibers that they claim to have tested?

August 07, 2017, 11:29 AM

wolffy88

quote:
Originally posted by Steve 22X:
Questions re: the linked Omaha Outdoors video:

2) Did someone 'work on' the pistols that fired prior to the test? No, they claim it was directly out of the box.

3) Did they really pull the bullets and powder from all of the "major manufacturer" duty, range and target ammo of different calibers that they claim to have tested? I can't see why they wouldn't have. It's not like it's hard to do.

August 07, 2017, 11:45 AM

evolution

I'm waiting for Bruce to weigh in here.

I don't like the sound of this though.

August 07, 2017, 11:56 AM

Steve 22X

quote:
Originally posted by wolffy88:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve 22X:
Questions re: the linked Omaha Outdoors video:

2) Did someone 'work on' the pistols that fired prior to the test? No, they claim it was directly out of the box.

3) Did they really pull the bullets and powder from all of the "major manufacturer" duty, range and target ammo of different calibers that they claim to have tested? I can't see why they wouldn't have. It's not like it's hard to do.

Re 2: They also claimed that two of the pistols that would fire when dropped were of the three that had previously been torture tested.
Hence, three of them were not directly out of the box although one of those did not fire.

Re 3: Not difficult perhaps but time consuming.
That particular claim struck me as being somewhat exaggerated.

The above were simply two questions that I thought of as I was viewing the video and are not really that important.
For the sake of avoiding picking nits, I will presume they are 100% genuine in what they stated in the video as to the above.

BUT did they throw the pistols to the ground with force or simply drop them?
I cannot positively determine this from the slow motion shots of just the pistol firing and only saw what appeared to be a throw to the ground just past the 2:01 point in the video.

August 07, 2017, 12:10 PM

ZSMICHAEL

quote:
posted August 07, 2017 11:45 AM Hide Post
I'm waiting for Bruce to weigh in here.
.

HE ALREADY HAS READ THE THREAD

August 07, 2017, 12:17 PM

Steve 22X

quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve 22X:

Re 2: They also claimed that two of the pistols that would fire when dropped were of the three that had previously been torture tested.
Hence, not directly out of the box.

Re 3: Not difficult perhaps but time consuming.
That particular claim struck me as being somewhat exaggerated.

That is incorrect. Omaha said one of the four pistols they tested was previously untested. And TTAG's one pistol was also previously untested.

What I posted was correct in my response to wolffy88.
By their own admission only one of the four pistols used for their test was directly out of the box.

No comment on TTAG since I did not see their article.

August 07, 2017, 12:22 PM

YooperSigs

I had to re-read the thread as I had missed Mr. Gray's post. That, for me, makes it a non-issue.

August 07, 2017, 12:23 PM

bubbatime

The video by the Omaha folks was well done.

No bones about it, this is negative publicity and it will kill Sig to sit on their hands and do nothing. They will have to redesign the trigger or face the consequences.

Mr Police Brass will demand answers and a safe gun. Once an issue like this is brought to the attention of the manufacturer, you just know that the swimming shark lawyers are circling and waiting for a chance...

Sig and Magpul and others like to say that they followed the testing protocol, and they did it in a scientific, repeatable fashion. That's great. If I'm Average Joe Citizen, and I accidentally drop my gun, is it only going to be dropped in a "scientific or repeatable" manner? No. Its going to be dropped, period.

The 320 is a good gun, but as we are seeing, its still early in its development and from time to time these previously unknown issues will come up and Sig will have to make incremental changes to improve upon the design.

August 07, 2017, 12:30 PM

striker1

The Omaha folks suggest two fixes:

1. Safety tab style trigger
2. Lighter trigger (the std trigger was 6% heavier than the flat trigger)

What about a heavier trigger return spring to counteract the inertial movement of the trigger?

August 07, 2017, 12:37 PM

bcjwriter

I'm using the Apex flat trigger on mine...no issues with mine but "I've never drop tested it...

August 07, 2017, 12:49 PM

bcjwriter

OK...just saw the video...Geez...

August 07, 2017, 12:49 PM

ThmsMgnm

quote:
Originally posted by bubbatime:

The 320 is a good gun, but as we are seeing, its still early in its development and from time to time these previously unknown issues will come up and Sig will have to make incremental changes to improve upon the design.

This gun is not early in it's development cycle, it is a firearm that is being sold.

Also SIG has to address this before it becomes a liability issue.

August 07, 2017, 12:50 PM

striker1

quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:
quote:
Originally posted by striker1:
The Omaha folks suggest two fixes:

1. Safety tab style trigger
2. Lighter trigger (the std trigger was 6% heavier than the flat trigger)

What about a heavier trigger return spring to counteract the inertial movement of the trigger?

The problem with springs is that they don't fix the problem as much as increase the force necessary to have the problem.

So you could put in stronger springs, and the gun would only drop fire from 6 feet instead of four. But the trigger pull would go up.

If you use balanced or sequential components you don't need heavier springs and they remain drop safe from any height.

So the lighter trigger, as suggested, is also not a fix.