quote:

Originally posted by lordhamster:
Whenever ANY article is posted to ANY gun forum where someone has an ND and claims the pistol fell, EVERYONE will always claim that the person in question must have pulled the trigger. Next, they will quote the old adage that "modern" firearms will not fire when dropped.

So can you explain to me how "No Pistol is 100% drop safe"? Because this is news to me as I've never seen any other non-recalled pistol fire when dropped.

Conversely, I can see a case where someone has a ND injury and will claim instead that the 320 was dropped.

quote:

Originally posted by GJM AK:
Buddy of mine shoots a 320 in USPSA Production, made M with the FS 320 and really likes the platform. Tested a drop today from 30 inches onto carpeted cement with a stock 320C (other than a GGI PELT trigger), and it discharged a primed case on the first drop.

https://youtu.be/ch7si_VQsGA

I'd definitely like to see THAT on video. If true that is VERY alarming.

I just don't see how a pistol maker that has been around as long as Sig selling a premium priced product could let this happen. That video gave me the hibly jiblies.

quote:

Originally posted by GlockandRoll:
I just don't see how a pistol maker that has been around as long as Sig selling a premium priced product could let this happen. That video gave me the hibly jiblies.

With their history of "Safety Upgrades" (P238 / P290) and "Gen 2" weapon systems less than a year after introduction (556 / 556R / P250 / P320 / etc etc) it doesn't surprise me in the least.

The P320 has the trigger slap, the slide release, the Gen 2 frame... What next?

And while the "manual safety" version made be golden for the M17 contract, who knows if there is some aspect of the manual safety that is bugggered up? We don't know because there aren't that many out there.

Glad my P320 traded for a Glorp last month. Hadn't shot it in month - no intense dislike really, but if I still owned it there certainly would be.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:



So the lighter trigger, as suggested, is also not a fix.

Sure it is. It restores balance between the component masses so one doesn't overrule another in an impact.

I only addressed the spring idea in the previous post.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that since the trigger and the trigger bar move in opposite directions, they were theoretically balanced so their inertia would cancel each other out if dropped, and that was one of the reasons a tabbed trigger was not required on the P320.

If so, then a slightly heavier trigger bar could also play into the equation, but not heavy enough to override the weight of the trigger in a muzzle down drop, although I think I would rather have a discharge in a muzzle down drop as opposed to a muzzle up drop if I had to pick one.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
And while the "manual safety" version made be golden for the M17 contract, who knows if there is some aspect of the manual safety that is bugggered up? We don't know because there aren't that many out there.

People are going to believe what they want, facts be damned. Some seem to want to believe that if enough can be piled on SIG, that Glock will be given the contract in the same way if Trump is impeached, Hillary will become president.

The 17 contract will stroke on like none of this ever happened.

This thread will dominate the pistols section for a few weeks, especially if a couple of posters have anything to do with it, and in a few months this will be "drop safe who?" once Facespace unleashes the next big controversy, real or imagined.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by GlockandRoll:
I just don't see how a pistol maker that has been around as long as Sig selling a premium priced product could let this happen. That video gave me the hibly jiblies.

With their history of "Safety Upgrades" (P238 / P290) and "Gen 2" weapon systems less than a year after introduction (556 / 556R / P250 / P320 / etc etc) it doesn't surprise me in the least.

The P320 has the trigger slap, the slide release, the Gen 2 frame... What next?

And while the "manual safety" version made be golden for the M17 contract, who knows if there is some aspect of the manual safety that is bugggered up? We don't know because there aren't that many out there.

Glad my P320 traded for a Glorp last month. Hadn't shot it in month - no intense dislike really, but if I still owned it there certainly would be.

Seems Sig has found a business model that works. While most companies spend millions in R&D, Sig simply releases the product, spends a few bucks on mall ninja vdeos and then sits back and waits for the owners to do the real testing. Then, scrap the firt run of guns, essentially screwing the owners of the gen1 guns, create a Gen2, more mall ninja movies....repeat.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
And while the "manual safety" version made be golden for the M17 contract, who knows if there is some aspect of the manual safety that is bugggered up? We don't know because there aren't that many out there.

People are going to believe what they want, facts be damned. Some seem to want to believe that if enough can be piled on SIG, that Glock will be given the contract in the same way if Trump is impeached, Hillary will become president.

The 17 contract will stroke on like none of this ever happened.

This thread will dominate the pistols section for a few weeks, especially if a couple of posters have anything to do with it, and in a few months this will be "drop safe who?" once Facespace unleashes the next big controversy, real or imagined.

My real point with the manual safety version is we really don't know how good (or not) it is.

Took several years for this to be discovered, the manual safety has seen negligible service thus far.

I couldn't care less if the M17 is a Glock, Sig or Beretta. Just pointing out that there is at best limited data on the manual safety version but plenty of shenanigans by SIG WRT original SIG USA designs.

Don't forget the wildly successful P224... P232 in 22LR... etc...

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
once Facespace unleashes the next big controversy, real or imagined.

It's coming. I can see it now. Agencies secretly testing gen5 17s...

Perhaps in one or more of the many steps in manufacturing these pistols and their components some minor wear is occurring causing the stacking of tolerances just enough to start causing issues with recently produces pistols?
That would explain why the earlier drop tests were successful.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
And while the "manual safety" version made be golden for the M17 contract, who knows if there is some aspect of the manual safety that is bugggered up? We don't know because there aren't that many out there.

People are going to believe what they want, facts be damned. Some seem to want to believe that if enough can be piled on SIG, that Glock will be given the contract in the same way if Trump is impeached, Hillary will become president.

The 17 contract will stroke on like none of this ever happened.

This thread will dominate the pistols section for a few weeks, especially if a couple of posters have anything to do with it, and in a few months this will be "drop safe who?" once Facespace unleashes the next big controversy, real or imagined.

My real point with the manual safety version is we really don't know how good (or not) it is.

Took several years for this to be discovered, the manual safety has seen negligible service thus far.

I couldn't care less if the M17 is a Glock, Sig or Beretta. Just pointing out that there is at best limited data on the manual safety version but plenty of shenanigans by SIG WRT original SIG USA designs.

Don't forget the wildly successful P224... P232 in 22LR... etc...

Oh snap.....
Yes, the M17 "government" contract will go on. Those have proven highly successful in the past.

Doesn't mean we provided the best pistol to mil.
Time will tell on that.

IMO, if you're looking for the best 9mm handgun, I wouldn't put the P320 in the top five, but that's me based on personal experience. No warranty implied.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
And while the "manual safety" version made be golden for the M17 contract, who knows if there is some aspect of the manual safety that is bugggered up? We don't know because there aren't that many out there.

People are going to believe what they want, facts be damned. Some seem to want to believe that if enough can be piled on SIG, that Glock will be given the contract in the same way if Trump is impeached, Hillary will become president.

The 17 contract will stroke on like none of this ever happened.

This thread will dominate the pistols section for a few weeks, especially if a couple of posters have anything to do with it, and in a few months this will be "drop safe who?" once Facespace unleashes the next big controversy, real or imagined.

Facts be damned? Are those videos faked?

I bet it's going to be a long night in Exeter, New Hampshire...

Engineers, testers, accountants, lawyers...

I think it's popcorn time...



Or maybe we'll get a slew of videos of them being dropped and not firing??? Seems to me to be a pretty easy thing to refute by a premier firearms manufacturer, with the worlds best testing facilities, in house ammunition production, and likely thousands of test subject to pull from...

Only time will tell...

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I think that thread was identified as a troll, and dealt with.

Apparently not....

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve 22X:

I pretty much stopped reading TTAG several years ago hence did not initially attempt to open the links.

Nevertheless, attempting to find the TTAG article using the first link available on Pg 7 of this thread results in a "Page not found" error on the browser tab and the page displayed is devoid of anything related to the topic.

The other link to TTAG, listed further down the thread (Pg 7) has them simply reporting on the Omaha video.

In other words, no additional news was found there.

Edited to add:
After reading the "comments" section of the TTAG article I note that Andrew Tuohy claims, "It was during the course of attempting to approximate portions of the ANSI test with its increased height that we discovered this angle would cause the weapons to fire."

That seems to answer my #1 question.
It appears they threw the pistols to the ground rather than just let them drop from a measured height.

Maybe you were unable to view this, so here it is again. It documents TTAG buying and dropping a P320C.

I don't see anything that suggests "throwing".
They dropped the P320 in a very controlled way by the trigger guard, as did TTAG. What are you talking about?

quote:

I was not able to see the article that was removed and only saw the one which referenced the Omaha test.
Specifically, the article referenced in this link from page 7 of this thread, http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c...lowing-drop-testing/
After reading that linked article I saw absolutely no more NEW information than I had already received viewing the Omaha video on YouTube.
However, after my initial post I then read the comment section of that article and quoted what I read.
Noting that if one attempts to "approximate" portions of testing at an increased height rather than actually testing at that height, it certainly implies that they had to simulate the force of a drop from a higher level.
Coupled with what I observed in the video just past the 2:01 point where it appears the gun is thrown down rather than dropped, I came to my conclusion.
That is what I am talking about.

At what height was the dropped performed?

quote:

Originally posted by Doe:
At what height was the dropped performed?

Four feet; slightly higher than the average waist.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The 17 contract is not going to be under scrutiny. It has a manual safety and will not discharge for the reasons presented, if true.

Could it discharge after the safety is disengaged and then dropped...and if all the stars are aligned?

quote:

Originally posted by gordynismo:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The 17 contract is not going to be under scrutiny. It has a manual safety and will not discharge for the reasons presented, if true.

Could it discharge after the safety is disengaged and then dropped...and if all the stars are aligned?

Who knows? How long as the safety version been available? How is the safety system designed / constructed.

I think the simple answers is "we don't know yet". But why would you ever drop a firearm with the safety off? That could never happen! And everyone knows the first step to the 'drop firearm' checklist is SAFETY - ON.

It had made it a non-issue. This video make it VERY much an issue.

I was one of the first ones here looking sideways at the claims about the DPD problems. But to me, that video is definitive.

The P320 in its configurations without a manual safety is NOT drop safe, and therefore is defective. Also, a gun with a manual safety shouldn't go fire even if dropped with the safety off. Since the non-safety version will fire if dropped and impacts at the correct angle, I have to now assume so will the manual safety version, if the safety is off.

Until this is fixed, I'd have nothing to do with it (and I really liked this gun.)

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I had to re-read the thread as I had missed Mr. Gray's post. That, for me, makes it a non-issue.