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Giftedly Outspoken |
Known issue that was RESOLVED. Mine is early production, around 700 serial number. It had the RTB issue, went back and now has over 1200 rounds with zero issues. ZERO. Over 500rds of those were hollowpoints. ZERO issues, NONE. I have had issues in other guns with Blazer aluminum and Herters. Blazer casings deform easily. Herters is dirty junk. If someone wants to shoot cheap shit all day, go ahead, but don't be surprised if you have issues. Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six | |||
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| Giftedly Outspoken |
That's fine man. Keep wasting your money on JUNK ammo. The fact that you told us you shot Blazer Alum, Herters and Geco tells me you are cheap when it comes to ammo. You came here giving your report, several of us have told you this is junk ammo or that we've had issues with it in other guns. Don't want to believe us, that's fine. Personally I could care less how FMJ's shoot in my carry gun. What matters is how my carry ammo works in my carry gun. Have a nice night. Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six | |||
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Member |
Ok. My buddy and I went to the range 2 days ago. Just so happened they got a shipment of 2nd Gen P365's in. They offered me a RENTAL P365 also 2nd generation. And they did NOT charge me rent. So we dove in and shot cheap target 9mm, steel case 9mm and a mag or so of +P. Well. We were both very very impressed to say the least. That trigger is AMAZING. And those X-Ray night sights are crazy bright and outstanding. NO failures in about 30-40 rounds. Afterwards, I disassembled the 365 and checked for the 'unusual' internal wear on the inside front slide and bbl locking areas. Also checked the rear beavertail area of the frame to slide gap. Nothing unusual there either. And this was a rental gun. The other guns we were shooting were all subs. We shot my brand new P30sk V1 LEM LE pckg. His Glock 26 and of course the P365. ALL three pistols performed superbly. About 350 rounds fired overall.. Sig P226 CPO 9mm(W. German) HK45 Compact .45ACP V1 Hk P2000 .357SIG LEM (LE) Hk P2000 9mm LEM Rossi R462-R2 2" .357 Magnum Hk Fabarm FP6 - 12 ga. pump Saiga 7.62 - 16" bbl Saiga .308 - 16" bbl | |||
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| Member |
Please keep us posted on further testing...I'm very interested in this model. My Kahr PM9 had some problems FEEDING early on, but that was solved after break-in and vigorous feed ramp polishing with a Dremel buffer. Extraction issues can be tougher to solve, and that does concern me a bit...hopefully just a break-in thing, though. I have also shot Blazer aluminum and other cheap crap (no Russian or steel case) in my PM9 without issue. These tiny 9mms are really too small for the cartridges that we expect them to shoot reliably, but the only ones my PM9 really had trouble with were some of the Federal hollowpoints, namely HST and Hydras. It's never choked on ball, but seems to like Winchester (Silvertip and SXT/Ranger) and all things Speer. I think the Federal stuff might be just a little too long and/or sharp around the edges to make it up the feed ramp reliably. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
It might be cheap insurance to scrub out the chamber and the extractor hook with the narrow end of an M16 brush and some good cleaner. A spritz of solvent, a blast of air and a drop of oil at the back end of the extractor might not be a bad deal, either. My experiences with Blazer and Herter's 9mm has been variable, so I tend to think of them as being a little more demanding on the pistol when it comes to feeding and extracting. | |||
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| Member |
First range trip, 50 Federal HST 147gr 50 Federal HST 124 Gr +P 50 Speer Lawman 115 Gr +P 50 Speer Lawman 115 Gr 50 Speer Lawman 124 Gr 50 Speer Lawman 147 Gr 100 Blazer Brass 115gr 50 Fiocchi 158 Gr Subsonic No malfunctions, I started with the HST 124+P and Lawman 115 +P. Then worked up from 115-158gr non+P. I was sore afterwards and my hand was tinder at the magwell area, not blistered like one member reported from the magzine edge. but I was also aware of that beforehand so I kept an eye out. ___________ ___________ ___________ | |||
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| Member |
Life would be easier, and forum complaints far less if people would, 1. Clean and lube their new gun before shooting. 2. Break it in with at least halfway decent BRASS cased ammo. 3. Clean it thoroughly after each range session the first couple months use. 4. Learn to grip these small guns so your thumb is not hitting the slide release or mag release button. 5. Let someone else that actually knows how to shoot accurately fire a few rounds to confirm if you really need to hammer on your rear sight to correct you from shooting low left. (right handed shooter). The manufacturers customer service phones would also appreciate the all the above being tried before attempting an unnecessary return that is frustrating for all. My 2¢ | |||
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| Freethinker |
Okay, now that we’ve established that certain guns (dare I call them “snowflakes”?) won’t work properly with the same ammunition that’s fired in huge quantities with no problems in countless other pistols, I have two specific questions for the authorities who have educated us ignoramuses thus far. The first should be easy: What Goldilocks (just right) ammunition can owners of P365s use to ensure they won’t have even a few malfunctions? I will agree that even one failure to extract out of a couple hundred rounds is unacceptable, and as the P365 is the first SIG in several years that I’m willing to seriously consider buying, I’d like to avoid the frustration of having to try many different types to find something that works all the time. The original topic starter is to be congratulated on his willingness to experiment with so many different types and in such large quantities, but I can’t imagine doing that myself, so I’m asking for help. I’ve been spoiled by not having systemic problems with any ammunition—including the crappy stuff (whatever that might mean). The second is what I’m more interested in, however, because although I know a bit about guns, it’s not one I can answer for myself. Because several people who are more knowledgeable than I about the subject have contributed to this thread, we know that the extraction failures were due to bad ammunition that was “junk,” “crappy,” inexpensive, not high grade, “shit,” and not BRASS (even though one failure was with brass-cased ammunition). Now that we know that, what was the actual mechanism of the failures? The ammunition evidently didn’t produce excessive pressures or have out-of-spec cases as far as we know because the cases were “tapped” out. The above photos don’t reveal any problems with the case rims, and though I can’t be positive without a closer look, the primers also appear to be normal (i.e., not flattened). When I am confident enough to tell someone that his gun problems are due to some characteristic of the ammunition, that confidence is based on my understanding of the underlying cause. It’s not just, “Oh, that’s crap stuff; I wouldn’t use it in a Glock.” If, for example, Fiocchi 45 ACP ammunition cannot be loaded in current P220 magazines, I will explain that the smaller extractor grooves of older lots won’t go past the “dimple” at the top of the mag. When someone is having light strike failures to fire, I will discuss all the possible reasons, including the fact that certain European ammunition is reported to have hard primers. In this case, though, the reason why the crap ammunition isn’t extracting reliably is a mystery to me (assuming, as many have, that it really is the ammunition’s fault, not the gun’s). I’m always eager to improve my understanding of these things, so I solicit your explanations. Thank you. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Member |
I have a P365 manf. on 3/31. I have put ~ 400 rounds through it. Mostly federal 115g target/practice ammo. and I have had 4 failures to extract and one light primer strike. The shell cassings were not "stuck" in the chamber and were removed by hand. I plan to run more ammo through it and see if the problem goes away. I don't believe it to be the ammo as I have shot this through multiple guns without incedent. If the problem doesn't go away in the next couple of hundred rounds it's going back to Sig. Just my thoughts on the subject  | |||
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Member |
Whoa!!! That is called asking the hard questions. Sure glad I have not entered this thread, but eagerly awaiting a response or two EasyFire [AT] zianet.com ---------------------------------- NRA Certified Pistol Instructor Colorado Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor Nationwide Agent for > US LawShield > https://www.texaslawshield.com...p.php?promo=ondemand CCW Safe > www.ccwsafe.com/CCHPI | |||
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| Member |
I now have over 200 rounds of Federal aluminum, over 300 rounds of AE124 and just under 100 rounds of various other brands, including Federal HST, Liberty Civil Defense and Hornady Critical Duty. Not once, have I had a malfunction of any kind and there is no trace of barrel peening or premature wear, anywhere. | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
A simple measurement with a caliper would answer a lot of questions. No matter what the brand, if it's within spec then it should work. But if it isn't and the ones that do work are within spec, then there's the answer. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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| Member |
It's not that simple; ammunition which is in spec prior to firing does not necessarily remain so at the time of use, whether due to cycling or firing. Ammunition which, for example, allows a reduction in overall length during cycling may result in higher chamber pressures which can lead to excessive case expansion and difficult extraction, as can a softer case (eg, aluminum), and a rough case exterior can do the same. I have had failures to extract in blazer aluminum cases in firearms which don't exhibit that kind of malfunction with other types of ammunition. | |||
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| Member |
At the range where I have worked just over five years, malfunctions with factory ammo are fully 95% Remington rimfire and either steel or aluminum cased centerfire rounds. The 22 Remington Golden rimfire are so bad we actually use them while teaching our classes because it forces our students to learn how to correctly handle a malfunction. As for the steel or aluminum centerfire, it's your call but it will never be chambered in any firearm I own. | |||
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| Member |
Our agency stopped buying Blazer years ago. We used it for a long time, but had issues with several lots of different calibers burning through the case during ignition and torching holes in the barrels of the handguns. They bought me a new barrel for my Sig P220 I carried at the time. We never went back. | |||
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| Freethinker |
This is evidently a good time to reiterate the question I actually asked: What is it about the crappy ammunition that the topic starter fired that caused the failures to extract? (Reminder: not just with Blazer ammunition.) I get it that crappy ammunition is … well, crappy, but what is it specifically that caused the malfunctions? For example: Let’s say someone is shooting a pistol chambered for 357 SIG, and suddenly his slide won’t go into battery. He asks why, so we eject the round that was being chambered and discover it’s a 40 S&W cartridge. I can then explain that the .40 caliber bullet is too large to fit into the throat of the .355" barrel, and that’s what prevented the slide from moving fully forward into battery. That’s an explanation of the actual, specific cause of the failure that has nothing to do with irrelevant factors such as the cost of the ammunition, its case material, whether there’s a full moon tonight, etc. Perhaps a more common example would be easier for some people to understand. “My car won’t start. I wonder why.” “Well, no wonder; it’s a Ford. Fords are crappy cars.” Does that answer the question? Of course not. Most Fords start most of the time, and most of the cases of Blazer and Herter ammunition extract when fired (I saw that myself about 50 times just today—once again). “You’re out of gas,” “The sparkplug wire is disconnected,” or “Your battery is dead,” are all specific reasons for why a car won’t start. “It’s a Ford,” isn’t. When I tell someone that he has a defective part or ammunition that’s causing his problem, I know why the defective item caused the problem, and not just because it didn’t cost a lot or because it exhibited defects unrelated to the problem being discussed. I haven’t seen any such relevant explanation thus far in this thread. (Nor do I expect to at this point, actually, but I haven’t lost all hope yet.) ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm.  |
FWIW: Herter's brass-cased ammo is made by Sellier & Bellot in Czech Republic. I haven't had any problems with it in 9mm Luger and .380 ACP, although I haven't shot a lot of it. Again in a limited amount, I have never had any problem with Geco either. I have shot Blazer aluminum by the bushel in several guns, and the only stoppages were "stovepipe" ejections in one, a CZ75D Compact PCR. Although inexpensive, I don't think they are "junk" or "crap." I don't believe this is an ammo problem. The problem is that the failures are so sporadic that, if the gun were to be sent back, they could legitimately say they were not able to duplicate the problem. | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
I wouldn't say it's not that simple until you start with the simple stuff like measuring the case diameter of fired rounds. Both the ones that worked and the ones that didn't. If that's not it, go to the next step. You said that most of the brands you fired worked fine and those two didn't. Start by measuring anything you can and looking at the good and bad casings to see if there is anything that looks different. I've always had the best luck at solving problems by starting with the simple and obvious first, not last. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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| Member |
Do you mean that one should take calipers along and measure every round prior to firing, and then on the off chance that one or two didn't extract, measure them again after the fact and check? On the occasions when I've had them fail, I was standing in a pile of mixed brass, some mine, some others, some aluminum, some brass, being fired from multiple pistols, and the only concern when the malfunction occurred was to clear and shoot again. When those malfunctions occurred, it was while traveling, with a few firearms, no tools, and wasn't experimenting. In that unscientific environment, the aluminum cases failed to extract it weapons that did not experience the problem with other ammunition types. | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
Of course not. He stated that he took his brand new gun to the range and shot a number of rounds through it and had two that failed to extract and showed photos of those. So I would take those two rounds and a few of the others on the ground to compare when I got back and could measure them. Keep it simple if you want to determine the problem, unless that's not the point. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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