I'm 6'5'', 220....a big, tall guy, not exactly skinny, but not obese. I have pretty large hands. Not huge...I can't easily palm a basketball, but I have long palms and long fingers. I can't get a comfortable grip and trigger pull on most small skinny guns because my hand has to be contorted to maintain a grip purchase while trying to smoothly pull the trigger back to the breaking point...which on most small guns is ridiculously far to the rear. I can still shoot them, but it takes far more concentration (time), and accuracy suffers somewhat compared to a "big" gun.

I don't throw a gun on the second I get out of the shower, but I do before I leave the house, and once it's on it stays on until I go to bed...so I carry pretty much continuously throughout the day. It's true that a tiny gun would conceal better and carry easier, but I'd rather put up with a little discomfort and carry something that I know will allow me to perform at the top of my game if I need it.

Examples of guns that I've found to be too small are the P3AT, LCP, G43, P938, P365 (although a Hogue grip sleeve added just enough girth to make it acceptable), and even the P239. The Glock 26 is about as small as I can go and really feel confident that I can shoot it as well as a "big" gun. Depending upon what clothing I'm wearing that day, it's either the G26 or a P320 Carry on my hip. The Glock conceals very well and is comfortable enough in a thin kydex holster that I barely notice it. The P320 is big enough that it requires some adjusting now and then...but in winter time with heavy clothing it's pretty do-able. I recently ordered a subcompact grip for my P320...I'm going to try that out and see what I think about it.

Mag compatibility is kind of a secondary issue as far as I'm concerned, but it is a legitimate point. If you are carrying a G43 or P365, for example, you're limited to low capacity mags. Glock and Sig don't make high-cap mags for them. If folks are ok with that, that's a legitimate choice, but I like that with either my G26 or my P320, I can throw a 17 rounder in my pants pocket and a few more in the door pocket of my truck to have available as reloads.

So I guess my reasons are that I shoot them better, they're more versatile, and the slight size increase doesn't bother me. There is such a thing as too small.

One of the reasons I liked the BHP so much is that although she's big, she feels like a thin gun.

-Tom

Don’t carry in the house. Plenty of in case shit break glass guns so to speak.

99% of my carry is a Glock 19 sized handgun and have no issues. When the 43 came out I went, I looked and all I could think was my G26 does everything better.

Now I have a Walther PPS that scratches that small auto loader itch but honestly if I have to go that small I prefer a J Frame.

Over the years I have just settled on that G19/G23 size to be about my perfect do all gun. Specifically for me it’s an HK P2000 but that size works across the board for me. Shootable, nightstand, carry, etc.

All that said MORE GUN CHOICES!!!! How could this ever be a bad thing, especially if more folks carry.

I think there is something to be said for having even a break contact gun vs a “fighting gun” as I believe most of us, surely me, just simply want to get me and mine out of Dodge. I am not looking to run towards and engage. I do prefer having more of a fighting sized gun but if I’m honest simply to provide more accurate and longer suppressive fire while I run the other way bellowing out my battle cry......which sounds vaguely like me screaming like a little girl.

I have mostly the same opinion as JJ. I cannot run a subcompact single stack nearly as well as I can a subcompact double stack with finger extension (heel is flush). So a full grip, more or less. The single stack is smaller, thinner, and lighter, but it doesn’t shoot as well as a larger and heavier pistol for me. Way more effort and no matter how hard I try, it’s just not as effortless as something larger. I don’t buy or carry something based on a stat sheet. I also don’t carry something just because it’s the easiest to carry. It has to perform very well on the range and doing drills. So for me, it’s a combo of size, capacity, but more importantly, how it shoots. If it’s uncomfortable to shoot I just won’t practice with it as much. It has to be enjoyable to shoot AND carry. I’m not going to carry something just because it’s comfortable. It has to do both. I couldn’t run with jj on a timer, no way, but he speaks the truth on this. Can you fight with what you’re carrying? You can run the piss out of it if need be? Well few of us have been involved in a shooting so that means sims or drills. I can’t speak for anyone else but I can run a 26 almost as well as a 19 with a Pearce +0 on it. I couldn’t say the same thing for my 43. It was very different with defensive ammunition. And I had +1 Pearce extensions on it too for full grip. It’s just a matter of physics. The smaller and lighter pistol you go the harder it is to shoot.

The subcompacts I carry are fighting pistols with spare magz. And I can run the shit out of them, and I mean not compared to someone else, me, range, hitting steel, etc. The main subcompact I carry is 13+1, and I carry with a 17 rd spare with a factory sleeve so it’s also a full grip with no gaps. Reading the OP, “I lift BRO” so I’m in excellent shape and a double stack isn’t an issue. 8 months out of the year I carry a subcompact double stack. 4 months out of the year I carry a compact. That’s down to attire and weather. 8 months of the year it’s hot as hell here so subcompact double stacks that have mag interchangeability with a full size are my preference and always will be due to the heat here.

I think these new Glocks are great. I won’t buy either as I’ve relented to the fact I’m just a hammer guy and believe me I tried fighting that for years and lost. More options are always great. You shouldn’t give 2 fucks about these opinions you read. They don’t own the pistol, haven’t shot it, and are just running their ass/mouth. If they hate it, so what? Don’t base your buying decisions on strangers. They don’t pay your bills. You want it buy it. I think the 43X is a great option for someone currently carrying a 43 who wants more rounds in the mag. And it’ll probably shoot better on the range due to more mass but that’s just my own speculation. The new single stack 19 will be welcomed news for Glock folks who are in commie states with 10rd mag limits.

I carry everywhere outside of work, including the gym with a safepacker, and even on my motorcycles although I don’t know what good it will do with thick armored racing gloves. I cannot carry at work, it’s just not going to happen. It’s prohibited, with legal 30.06 and 30.07 signs, and we have these badge reader/detectors at the entrance. My firearm is locked and stored inside my vehicle during work inside a guarded and badge required parking garage. I carry at 3-4 o’clock IWB primarily, AIWB in a belt mounted holster, OWB, in a safepacker, a smart carry, and a Skorpion in a laptop bag. I have to carry a multitude of ways to have something with me at all times. One of my vehicles requires AIWB or laptop bag carry because it has tight fitting tight bolstered Recaros. 3-4 IWB in it isn’t possible. Some days I end up carrying 3-4 different ways due to the range of activity. Gym, K9 field work, motorcycle, MTB, and normal IWB. And there are days where I might use 2-3 different carry handguns due to the range of activity and dress.

I can run a G 26 with no problem , they shoot great for a small gun but I will carry a mid to full size , I can get a quicker grip on them .

I’ve tried the thin guns and they just don’t do it for me. I’ve had no problem carrying a 229 all day and I’m average size at 5’11” and 185-190. The only places I don’t carry are work and prohibited places. Sometimes I keep the gun on at home, others I have one within reach. Whatever works for you though, go for it.

I'm on the side of shootability vs concealability. I carry every day, from getting dressed to sleep (if I even get sleep). I wear a jacket or some form of covering garment all day, every day. I carry a P320 X-Carry, a P320 FS (GGP trigger and guide rod w/x-grips {weighted, no funnel}), or a HKVP9 depending what I am wearing (i.e. clothing that prints - HK, heavier dress, as in a jacket, P320 - I don't wear scrubs all day, I personally prefer clothing and a strong gun belt, with a lab coat on top, which I know is old school, costly, but just comfortable to me).

The slim guns just don't shoot as well for me as does a larger weapon. I'm not anywhere close to JJones's league (although I live-fire at least once every week for many years and combat shoot tight groups) but if I need to use it, I'm not compromising performance over concealment. A P365 is a BUG for me, and I do own one. It's snappiness, although very accurate, is not my comfort zone.

Around the house, outside working, it's a G27, concealed, covered by a shirt. Away from home, a G43 with a grip sleeve, with an extra mag in the off side front pocket. Not looking to get in extended gun fights (or any for that matter). Overall, the 43 checks all the boxes for me- slim, full power round, 6-7 shots, decent familiar trigger, easy to conceal. Not knocking the 365, we have one. The Glock just does it better for me.

This perhaps comes down to "why do you carry"? I carry to protect me and mine. I am not going to war or facing off with the local gang. I need to cover about 20 feet around me. A pocket 9mm does that just fine and I think 7 shots should do it, I'm not going to miss at that range.

I have several guns, large ones, don't need slim, that are staged around the house and garage. However, there is a pocket pistol in my pocket unless I'm in my pajamas.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I do not understand the appeal of thin guns. With one caveat. If you are pocket carrying because it is your only option. The newer XDS sized Glocks really have no appeal to me. I don't want to piss people that choose small guns off, but it is the honest answer to the question asked.

Your opinion would be different if you worked at a place with a no weapons policy, like most people do.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I do not understand the appeal of thin guns. With one caveat. If you are pocket carrying because it is your only option. The newer XDS sized Glocks really have no appeal to me. I don't want to piss people that choose small guns off, but it is the honest answer to the question asked.

Your opinion would be different if you worked at a place with a no weapons policy, like most people do.

Agreed, don't forget the 'get out of jail free' that comes with a badge, in the case of an 'honest mistake'.

Down here in sunshine land, it's a consideration of clothing type when selecting a carry.

Many times its gym shorts or Jorts when running to the store, a thin light firearm meets the need and strapping on a G26 or G19 works but isn't optimal.

IF I'm running up to the supermarket 7 rounds of 9mm in my pocket is plenty based on the area, it's crime history and clothing. The 43 works perfectly.

I'm interested in the new G4xxx series pistols as the longer grip is appealing, for now I'll wait and see until I can get my mitts on one.

PI am a bigger guy and carry off duty 4-6 hrs. a day. When I worked plain clothes I hated carrying my issued G27. Hated that fat little bastard. Always dug into my side, etc.... I found it was more comfortable to iwb my issues G22. Carried anywhere from 8-16 hours a day.

That being said I am a sucker for thin single stacks. They carry so nice. Thin mags are easier to carry around too. I am not a big Glock guy but. I really want a G48. I do hope it comes out in all black. I think of it as possibly Glock’s P225/P239. Which are two of my favorite guns of all time.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I do not understand the appeal of thin guns. With one caveat. If you are pocket carrying because it is your only option. The newer XDS sized Glocks really have no appeal to me. I don't want to piss people that choose small guns off, but it is the honest answer to the question asked.

I don't carry a gun around the house. I have enough guns hidden here and there that I really feel confident in getting to one if I need one. But, I carry a gun every place I go outside of the house. I carry a mid sized double stack pistol, with a spare 15 round magazine. The reasons are simple. Thin guns are really hard to shoot at a high level for just about anyone. You just aren't going to get solid .20 splits and .25 transitions out of any thin gun. The simple mechanics of size and weight fight against the shooter.

To me, it's not about just carrying a gun. It is about performing with the gun when the need arises, which should be the hows and whys of how we choose carry guns. For many, it is not and I get that. But, I do not understand the appeal of carrying something that is much harder to perform with. And I guess that I never will. I've been to two school shootings in my career, and a small gun is better than no gun, but a gun that you can exert a high level of control with is always my choice. I was on duty and obviously carried a rifle both times, but in this day and age, you never know where it is going to happen. I thought once I went to the first one, I wouldn't respond to a second. Sadly, I was wrong. And that shapes my opinions of gear and equipment choices.

The guys that like thin guns, REALLY like them. The Springfield XDS is an extremely popular pistol for detective carry and off duty carry where I work. It just isn't for me.

Is there a specific overall width that you consider “thin” and/or does width and length of the grip also play into the “thin gun” concerns you mentioned?

It's about grip contact and weight, really. When the P320 came out, it was easy to experiment with the different grip module sizes. A set of standardized drills at 10 yards out to 25 yards. What we found was "average" size hands did better with the large grip modules instead of the small or medium. This was because a full thumbs forward grip gave you more surface area to leverage the pistol. Up till this point, even with me, conventional logic had been smaller is better. You look at a lot of the competition P320s out there, and some of the top dogs are running large modules that are even more built up in width.

With the slim line pistol, you just don't have the surface area to leverage. The lighter weight makes it even more problematic and compounds the recoil/driving equation.

I love my P229s. My most frequently fired gun at the range, they're my primary home defense gun until I can get to an AR, I used to shoot one in competition, and I have a pile of IWB and OWB holsters. However, the pile has dust on it and there are hardly any wear marks in the leather as P229s are too thick for me.

My most frequently carried gun is my P239. It's almost as good of shooter as my P229s, but the thinness makes it a better conceal carry gun.

The only flaw in the thin conceal carry argument for me is that a couple months back I bought a j-frame and have carried it more than the P239. It's definitely thicker at the cylinder but I can pocket carry due to the reduced footprint and weight. I also carry IWB and the thicker cylinder just disappears.

quote:

What we found was "average" size hands did better with the large grip modules instead of the small or medium.

I love the way the small grip on the 2.0 Series feels in my hands, but I have found exactly what you state: I shoot the medium and large back straps better than the wonderful feeling for me small. I found this when shooting a buddies 2.0 with the large back strap installed so I experimented.

Prefontain, trust me man, my psych profile comes back that my "need to be liked" is in the bottom 2%, my buying decisions have nothing to do with what others think. I'm genuinely curious why folks dismiss the thinness.

As Jones pointed out, he shoots thicker guns better. OK, that's a valid point, but it's not really what these internet commandos are saying in comments and on other boards. He's also saying he prefers thicker guns, not necessarily that carrying a thinner gun is not more comfortable at all.

These dudes are saying simply, the grip length and slid length are the exact same as the G19, so there is no benefit and you lose 5 rounds...that's such a stupid gun (I'm paraphrasing but you get it).

That just baffles me. I don't see how anyone whose carried and G26 and a G43 would conclude there's no difference in how they carry. How can folks make these comments? That's my question. If you want a thicker gun for performance purposes, that's a whole different thing than what I'm talking about really.

The poll shows there are a lot of people who don't carry all day. That's my main hypotheses at this point. Folks who say the 43 and 26 carry the same are only carrying for a couple hours at a time? Stick those two hunks of steel in your belt for 15 hours a day, 7 days a week for a year and tell me they feel the exact same and I guess the drinks are on me, because I don't see how that could be possible.

For me it is also a matter of early experiences with guns. When I joined the military, I asked my old man (a been there, done that WWII vet) what he would carry if he was going to join the military. His response: The 1911. So I got one. It was heavy, reliable and.... Flat. With a good holster and belt, I carried it for years before we had the wondrous variety of CCW guns we have now. So... When I pick up a potential new purchase and fondle it, I always flash back to the grip feel of the 1911 and its flat, single stack carry experience.
So for me, a gun with 10+1 and that is more or less Colt Commander or old school P225 in grip size, flat profile and weight is the sweet spot in a CCW gun.
My main carry these days is a P250 Compact in 40 S&W with the hard to find small grip frame. Because it closely mirrors my years of experience.
Big, small, flat or fat, carry what you have confidence in and shoot well.

quote:

Originally posted by ACP1:
This perhaps comes down to "why do you carry"? I carry to protect me and mine. I am not going to war or facing off with the local gang. I need to cover about 20 feet around me. A pocket 9mm does that just fine and I think 7 shots should do it, I'm not going to miss at that range.

I have several guns, large ones, don't need slim, that are staged around the house and garage. However, there is a pocket pistol in my pocket unless I'm in my pajamas.

With all due respect, the problem with this line of thinking is that one never knows when they will be facing off with a gang. I bought a G43 awhile back. I really wanted to like it and carry it. Till one day while in a fast food line which I could not exit I encountered a car load of gangsters who were eyeing me and the wife. It was then that I realized that the G43 is just not enough gun for situations in which you may encounter multiple offenders. Even with an extra mag. Or two. As far as seven rounds being enough, I remember back in the revolver days when guys would say six is enough and that if it ain't, something is wrong with you. That was all fine and dandy until the day came in which they needed more than six because they went through the six quicker than you can shake a stick. I think it was Dave Spaulding who once described a a single stack gun as a one person gun. I didn't realize when I heard that how right he was. Me? I now carry either my 226 or 228. My G43 or J frames are now bug only. YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I do not understand the appeal of thin guns. With one caveat. If you are pocket carrying because it is your only option. The newer XDS sized Glocks really have no appeal to me. I don't want to piss people that choose small guns off, but it is the honest answer to the question asked.

Your opinion would be different if you worked at a place with a no weapons policy, like most people do.

Agreed, don't forget the 'get out of jail free' that comes with a badge, in the case of an 'honest mistake'.

I can't speak for Jones, but I worked at such a place for 9 years before becoming a cop, and I carried a G26 every day. It wasn't illegal, but I likely would have been fired if anyone had found out about it. Where I worked, I knew if I was going to have to use a gun, it was likely going to be because of an active shooter type situation, and while a smaller gun would have been more easy to carry and conceal, I opted for the bigger gun because I knew I could shoot it better.

I don’t think anyone has pointed out that the thinness of the single stack gun also means thinness in your spare mag or magazines. Therefore the thinness is a benefit on two areas of your gun belt.

If you prefer to drop a spare mag into a pocket, the difference is dramatic between single and double stack magazines.