Super informative. Those were some very nice improvements.

I'm old school about iron sights. I still think they are important on rifles and pistols, even if they are used as a backup. The one thing I'm not crazy about is loosing the ability to adjust the rear sight for windage It's not a deal-breaker. It just bugs me a little. Well...It bugs me somewhat. Let's be honest, It bugs the living hell out of me.

^^^^^^^^^
Interesting. I have never once had to adjust the rear sight on a pistol so I did not even take that into consideration.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
^^^^^^^^^
Interesting. I have never once had to adjust the rear sight on a pistol so I did not even take that into consideration.

^^^^^^^^^
That is even more interesting to me.

I've had new guns that were way off. Others that required a minor adjustment.
I'm sure the factory adjustment will be fine on these new pistols. At least close enough for most people.

I guess an easy solution would be to have Glocks with drift-able dovetail front sights but that is not going to happen.
Having backup iron sights is becoming less and less relevant for some folks. I've seen instructors suggest centering the target through the glass instead of using the iron sights in situations where the dot is out or it can't be located. That might work fine if you have a good index to begin with. Not something I would do if I have a perfectly good set of backup iron sights and the target is not on top of me.

quote:

Having backup iron sights is becoming less and less relevant for some folks. I've seen instructors suggest centering the target through the glass instead of using the iron sights

I’ve thought about this a bit. I am a fairly agnostic shooter in terms of caliber, platform, sighting etc. I think all of it brings pros and cons to the table.

That said I’ve thought to myself……self …what if you are ever in a defensive shooting (God forbid) and a dot type sight fails on my handgun. To be completely honest with myself and my skill level I am probably going to do exactly that. Center in window and hope my fundamentals are up to snuff. I seriously doubt I will have the presence of mind to go to irons in those microseconds. Now I am thinking about the most likely engagement that is probably 10 yards or less.

Now am I saying iron sights as a backup on a pistol are a moot point? Absolutely not. There is plenty of space under that bell curve for outliers outside of the “most likely” and if cover, distance, time comes into play then those irons are a must.

I am not preaching or trying to sway opinions as I am perfectly happy with ye old irons I am just speaking to my own personal thoughts.

As to the OP. The COA really didn’t interest me until Ian’s video above. I like the locking system and it seems like it would make a good industry standard. I too would prefer iron sight options especially if you can set up the gun with JUST irons and a plate of some kind.

At the end of the day as long as it will safely throw a projectile in the general direction I want it to, I can probably get along with it fine.

Take care, shoot safe.
Chris

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
The COA really didn’t interest me until Ian’s video above. I like the locking system and it seems like it would make a good industry standard.

Agreed.

Hopefully this signals the beginning of the end of the era of multiple proprietary optic footprints, differing mounting plates, slide milling, etc.

I honestly hope the COA is the definitive pistol mount platform and doesn't become another "standard". Looks extremely promising.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

That said I’ve thought to myself……self …what if you are ever in a defensive shooting (God forbid) and a dot type sight fails on my handgun. To be completely honest with myself and my skill level I am probably going to do exactly that. Center in window and hope my fundamentals are up to snuff. I seriously doubt I will have the presence of mind to go to irons in those microseconds. Now I am thinking about the most likely engagement that is probably 10 yards or less.

I'm sure your fundamentals are just fine, cslinger.

I would at least like to think that I've trained enough that I would be trying to use my irons as time allows. If I have done my part, they should be right there to begin with.
If my index is so far off that my dot is not even visible in the window, even at 5 or so yards, those shots can be pretty far off as well. It can make for some really fast misses.

I also hope this becomes “the standard” or at least forces another manufacturer to come up with something even better. I said it before in another thread (maybe more than one) that I wonder if the current OR pistols will become less desirable than regular non-OR pistols 10 to 15 years from now. Basically ranked in terms of prices they will command in the future:

#1 : OR pistols with whatever pattern has been standardized by then
#2 : non-OR pistols
#3 : OR pistols with present-day patterns

quote:

That said I’ve thought to myself……self …what if you are ever in a defensive shooting (God forbid) and a dot type sight fails on my handgun. To be completely honest with myself and my skill level I am probably going to do exactly that. Center in window and hope my fundamentals are up to snuff. I seriously doubt I will have the presence of mind to go to irons in those microseconds.

I've been doing a lot of red dot shooting lately. Today was qualification day with the county and I took in a whole bag of guns...all P320 or P22X variants, some with optics and some without.

When shooting my iron sights guns, I found myself target focusing instead of looking at the front sight. The target didn't know the difference.

I've always shot both eyes open target focused almost from the the beginning. I think that is one reason why I never really understood all the consternation with finding the dot or shooting red dots on pistols because I've more or less always shot the same way.

There will never be a "the standard" mounting system. It's just not going to happen. As it stands today, the RMR, DPP, RMSc (and variants), Acro, and 509T footprints are far too entrenched. If Aimpoint open sources this one so that other manufacturers can make identical, reliable copies of it, then maybe it will compete with the others, but otherwise it is just another footprint.

"But long guns have Picatinny!"

...they do, but is that really a comparison? When you consider that aside from the 1913 interface to the receiver, there is a massive market for mounts that fit various optics (Aimpoint Micro pattern, various rings, all of the above pistol optics patterns, AEMS pattern, ACOG mounts, aftermarket EOTech mounts, etc. It's just not a direct comparison.

Good information in this video. The one thing I think the guy got wrong is his guess about the slot on the right front side of the optic housing. In the video at the top of this page, Ian commented on the square window on the top off the optic housing, which is for robotic access during the manufacturing process. I think this is what the slot on the right side is for. Just a guess

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
If Aimpoint open sources this one so that other manufacturers can make identical, reliable copies of it, then maybe it will compete with the others, but otherwise it is just another footprint.

I believe this is what will happen. If they don't open source or license the A-cut at a reasonable price, it will become just another footprint as you stated. There are just too many issues with the mounting screws and plate systems. This appears to be a better mouse trap.

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I think in the Forgotten Weapons video he said other manufacturers are free to use the platform.

In the Tenicore video he said all COAs for the first year will go to Glock.
And then after that??????
But I can’t see Aimpoint creating an optic for a single platform outside of a government contract.
I am sure every pistol manufacturer and good optics maker will have a Glock with a COA on it as soon as they are available if they don’t already and will be determining if this will be a go to.

Will we ever see a ONE specific standard? The answer is pretty much guaranteed to be a no.
But at some point like Keymod tried, and MLOK succeeding something will come around that takes up quite a large portion of the mounting standard.

Will the A-CUT be it??? Only time will tell.

^^ With all of the compact 9mms running around, there's room for at least two footprints - service size and compact. SIG's "newish"/modified RMSc cut on the FUSE may wind up being dominant among compacts just because the 365s have sold so well.

One COA down.
He thrashed on it a little bit but kind of surprised it only took that much to break it.
Still waiting for the Sage Dynamics review as he beats them up a bit more on the drop tests.

Some of these dot failures are kind of akin to firearms failures though. All it takes is that magic piece of grit or mud to get to just the right spot to lock a gun up solid. With optics it’s probably the same thing. Just the right impact and an otherwise good product goes down.

Now of course the dots are a whole lot of extra complexity in general but all I am saying is one COA cracking doesn’t mean they are trash.

Says the guy sitting here with an iron sighted, hammer fired gun in his holster so ummmm get off my lawn I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
One COA down.
He thrashed on it a little bit but kind of surprised it only took that much to break it.
Still waiting for the Sage Dynamics review as he beats them up a bit more on the drop tests.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pWBQ-bKr_nI" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

Interesting take. Kentucky Ballistics just did a review that I watched and I was pretty impressed. He managed to break the glass when smashing it up against a cinder block, but the site continued to work and even kept its zero. He kind of put more emphasis on functioning than looks, but in all honesty I don’t think I’d ever plan on slamming a pistol with red dot attached against a cinder block so I was pretty suitably impressed that the site continued working even if it was broken. I know I would definitely feel confident carrying one of these on a duty or defense pistol based upon Kentucky Ballistics’ review, although I was a bit disappointed that the site glass was susceptible enough to impact that it was able to be broken in the fashion that it was.