quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Be aware that grease doesn't actually hold the screw in, but it does do two things; it reduces the coefficient of friction between the screw and fitting, and it also allows the screw to be turned in tighter with the same amount of pressure, because now the threads are lubricated. This actually increases the opportunity to strip threads.

I learned that torque specs - unless otherwise specified - are always for dry threads. Rule of thumb for lubricated threads is to torque the fastener to 70-80% of the dry thread spec.

quote:

Originally posted by Hawgster:

quote:

Originally posted by Ripley:
Advice here turned me on to Vibra-tite, a great alternative to Loctite. It's worked very well for me in several different applications.

https://www.amazon.com/Vibra-T...1&keywords=vibratite

What color do you use?

The stuff in the Amazon listing so I guess red. I'm colorblind, it looks more amber to me but I'm probably wrong.

I always used the blue Loctite for small fasteners but now like the Vibra-tite more. It works, it's not overpowering and the fastener can be removed and reinstalled. None of this stuff is pricey, get some and play with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
Blue Loctite or blue threadlocker has NEVER been recommended by the manufacturers for fasteners smaller than 1/4" diameter. Pink Loctite is the way to go for for fasteners smaller than 1/4" diameter such as grip screws.

Or the purple works fine too.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

I learned that torque specs - unless otherwise specified - are always for dry threads. Rule of thumb for lubricated threads is to torque the fastener to 70-80% of the dry thread spec.

Kind of. Torque specs are for dry or wet torque, but it's important to find out. A particular manufacturer or application may standardize with one kind of torque, but it's often impossible to do given the variety of fasteners on a particular component, vehicle, aircraft, appliance, etc.

It's very important to understand what torque is, and is not. Most people think it's a measurement of how tight a fastener is, and that's 100% wrong. It seems that way, because the fastener is being tightened in a circular motion; it's natural to conclude that we torque in order to get a rotational value...but we don't.

Torque is an imprecise measurement of bolt stretch; it's about the elasticity of the fastener and the amount that it's stretched in the process of drawing the item into the threads. A way to think of it is that the bolt grip, or portions of the threaded shank, are being stretched between the threads which pull away from the bolt head, and the head, which is pushed away from the threads by the working surface (washer, part, etc).

A fastener which is lubricated turns more easily due to less friction under a load, but what's really happening is that for a given amount of turning resistance, the bolt is stretched more, bringing it closer to it's maximum elasticity (which changes throughout the lift of the bolt).

Anyone who has ever twisted the head off a cylinder head bolt and then had to spend the rest of the day getting the bolt back out, understands this concept all too well.

Establishing a given load on a bolt by torquing is also affects the way heated components warm, twist, or crack as metal expands, such as a cylinder head; uneven torque can result in failed components, and certainly if a fastener is overtorqued due to lubrication vs. dry, then failure of the fastener drastically unbalances the load on the component being torqued (think cylinder head, again).

Especially in fasteners that are stainless, but fasteners in general, galling and increased wear can occur in the threaded area, which complicate the matter more.

In addition to considering the matter of wet or dry torque, there's the natural drag of the fastener. To accurately torque a fastener, that must also be taken into account and added to the torque value. For example, if torquing a fiberlock nut on a bolt, the fiberlock nut may have 20 inch-lbs of force required to thread the nut onto the bolt. If the required torque is 100 inch-lbs and one sets the torque wrench for that value, by the time the wrench clicks or breaks, showing 100 in-lbs, the fastener has actually only been given a load equal to 80 in-lbs...because 20 in-lbs of that 100 in-lb load was actually friction between the polymer fiberlock insert material, and the bolt.

This is important to understand, because if torque were really about rotational force on a fastener (it isn't), then you could stop at the 100 in-lbs and be done with it. In reality, the important factor isn't the rotational 100 lbs, but the load placed on the bolt, or the "stretch" or elastic force or tension on the bolt. By torquing to 100 inch lbs, the value appears right, but the bolt only loaded to a value equal to 80 in-lbs...because the friction of the nut has skewed the values.

To make it work as it should, the torque wrench would need to be set to 120 inch-lbs, and when the wrench clicks, the fastener would be loaded to the equivalent of 100 inch lbs, as it was supposed to be.

This applies to wet torque vs. dry; using the wrong method can significantly alter the end result to the fastener. It can result in overloading the fastener and ultimately failure of the part or fastener, or an uneven clamping pressure between two items that are bolted or screwed together, and that can result in failure of the application or part. It can also lead to the fastener backing out, and failure that way as well.

In some applications, all torque values are assumed wet, and in others, dry. It's also important to recognize that the lubricant specified for the application must be used, or the torque value, or tightness at the bolted or screwed fastener location, will be wrong. Each lubricant has different properties; some can result in outright failure, others in unintentional overtorquing or excess preload on the fastener, or loss of the fastener.

Real-world bottom line, you don't want the screw or bolt twisting off or snapping (elastic failure), and you don't want the grip screw backing out and falling off while shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Hawgster:

quote:

Originally posted by Ripley:
Advice here turned me on to Vibra-tite, a great alternative to Loctite. It's worked very well for me in several different applications.

https://www.amazon.com/Vibra-T...1&keywords=vibratite

What color do you use?
I’m not sure what way I’m going to go. I do have blue loctite on the shelf.
Thanks for all the replies.
Mike

Vibra-tite VC-3 for small screws.

You apply it around the screw threads and let it cure for maybe 30 minutes. When screwing it in, it gives it a gummy resistance feeling and doesnt allow the screw to vibrate and back out, and you are able to remove and install several times without having to re-apply the Vibra-tite.

Have used black nail polish with great success.

quote:

Originally posted by Hawgster:
...I am putting Hogue rubber grips on a new 239 and need some advice as to what is the proper way to “lock” them in place. I did buy the hex head screws, as well. Is there a recommended torque or just tight?...

I either use nothing or a little grease on my Sig, Beretta, CZ and 1911 grip screws. For most of my guns/grips, I don't need anything. Regarding the torque, I tighten them up finger tight using the end of the screwdriver then give it another 1/8 to 1/4 turn. While I don't know if this will "lock" the grip screws into place for the long term, I've never had them come out during a range session, and I've never stripped them. I also check the screws when I'm cleaning and doing other maintenance, so it's not like they're getting thousands of rounds to work themselves loose. If they happen to loosen a bit, I'll tighten them before next time. Some grips seem to stay on better than others. I think there are less issues with grip screws coming out with the rubber or G10 grips, but that's just my personal observation.

I have used the purple LocTite on small screws for years.
I have never seen or heard of "pink" LocTite until today. I also do not see it on the LocTite website.

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Originally posted by beltfed21:
Pink Loctite. Made for small screws. In order, pink, blue, red, green.

I did not know about the pink. Thanks. Grip screws don't need much. I've always used blue, but just a touch, and only on the tip of the screw(first thread), not up the threads. Works fine, and screws come out with just a little break.

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Originally posted by msfzoe:
If you don't have blue Loktite, nail polish can be substituted.
I've had success using polish on heavily recoiling Mosin Nagant and Mauser screws.

First, I agree with just tightening them and seeing what happens. And second, nail polish works outstanding. Not quite as "hard" as loctite but it holds just enough. Another option is o-rings. They work great on 1911 grips. If you do need loctite I would recommend Loctite 222, the purple stuff. It's low torque for smaller screws and things.

Now a story. When I was in high school I was kind of like the class mechanic. I had a friend over the house one day and I was putting a new exhaust on his car. As we all know new exhaust clamps tend to loosen up after they have been driven a bit. So I used to use my mom's nail polish on the nuts (usually clear but whatever was present on her dresser) and one day as I was coating the clamps with polish she pulled into the driveway. She wasn't impressed with my idea lol.

I generally just put them in dry and have never had one fall out in my life. On my Browning buckmark with URX grips, occasionally one will loosen after a lot of shooting. I would try that first. If you have an issue after that, try a dab of nail polish.....I'd be wary of locktite blue as it might secure them a bit too much and you might strip them getting them out.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig Mann:
Out of curiosity, how do you remove dried Loctite on screw threads. I thought that I read somewhere that nail polish remover (acetone) will do it.

Loctite's website says the cured product can be removed with methylene chloride and mechanical scrubbing, but that stuff is not something most people have access to, and it's not fun to work with as it goes right through nitrile gloves and absorbs into your skin.

The pink loctite is stated as purple by the mfg. The packaging looks more of a pink than a purple where it says low strength. I guess it could be a light colored purple.