I have a chance to pick up a very nice Luger in .30 Luger, it's probably a parts gun, but it has NO serial # on it anywhere, I cannot see any evidence of it being removed.

My question is, if I get it, and I in trouble, and if I have it, can I ever sell it?

the "cool" factor is there, so I want it...

What say yee???


Thanks,

Serial numbers weren't required until October 22nd, 1968. There are plenty of guns out there without serial numbers.

Totally legal under federal law, provided it never actually had one. A defaced firearm with the serial removed is still illegal.

However, there might be some state or local laws that prohibit non-serialed guns. (Like in locations where guns have to be registered by serial number.)

While I'm not a Luger expert, every Luger I've ever seen had a serial number, in multiple places (both full and partial). I'd be very suspect of one without any numbers anywhere. My first suspicion would be that they were removed, and the gun refinished.

RogueJSK,

Email headed your way.

thanks,

Or possibly what is called a Lunchbox gun? Piece by piece removed from the Factory, then assembled by the worker at home. NOT unheard of in the world of Luges.

Out of curiosity, what's the current owner say about it?

Are the factory proof marks present? AIR, the Imperial/Weimar era (1900 thru 1933) pistols had most (sometimes all -- even grip screws) parts proof marked. The proofs were unique to one particular factory.

Does the toggle bear a manufacturer's marking (Erfurt, DWM, Mauser Banner or numerical code)?

Is there a date over the top of the chamber? If not look down the muzzle at the chamber; does the portion surrounding the barrel look noticeably thinner at 12:00 than at 2:00 and 10:00? If so, the original marking has been ground off the chamber.
I have a .30 cal. "1920" commercial that 100% matches and has a ground chamber. It's has a re-cycled WWI receiver.

If you can determine the proof marks "match" each other and match the toggle manufacturers marking -- then you can be pretty sure you have a "lunchbox" Luger.

I possess a WW2 "bring back" police Luger (has sear safety and it's cut for mag safety) it 100% matches -- but it's a "parts gun" --- made from new and or re-cycled WWI parts. How do I know? The receiver bears a DWM proof while the frame is Erfurt proofed.

Get detailed photos and post on Jan Still's 'Luger Forum' website. Those guys will quickly identify what you are considering purchasing.

I would not pay a "premium price" for a parts gun, no matter how nice it was or how interesting the "story" accompanying it was. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't purchase it!

quote:

Originally posted by pillboxesghost:
...or how interesting the "story" accompanying it was.

Amen. As the old saying goes, "buy the gun, not the story."

All factory generated Lugers from beginning to the end came with serial numbers. I have been involved with Lugers since the early 1970s, and still own a "few". A Luger with NO numbers would not be a handgun that I would have any interest(collector or legal wise)in at all. If you wanted it for parts only, then that is a different situation. Just my opinion.

It could be made of all spare parts that were never force matched.

^^^^^
That makes some sense. I wonder if a person could have built a Luger (or any other gun) from an old Numrich catalog back before GCA-68?

Commercial Lugers are not marked the same as military Lugers.

Not trying to be smart, but are you certain you know where to look for numbers? For starters look on the underside of the barrel closest to the "frame".

quote:

Originally posted by TooTech:
Commercial Lugers are not marked the same as military Lugers.

Not trying to be smart, but are you certain you know where to look for numbers? For starters look on the underside of the barrel closest to the "frame".

All commercial and military Lugers had their frames marked......along with many other parts in various positions. If this Luger has NO serial numbers on the frame in front of the trigger guard, then that could well be a problem.

If there's no serial number on a Luger frame, I'd say it was removed in a havey polish before the gun was refinished.

I don't know about Lugers, but I have 3 old .22 rifles that don't have serial numbers. I'd say they're all made in the 20's or 30's. It happens.

Many pre-1968 long guns were legally manufactured without serial numbers, but I've never seen or heard of a brand name handgun without a serial number unless it had been removed, which is illegal. I would not buy this gun.

quote:

Originally posted by GT-40DOC:

quote:

Originally posted by TooTech:
Commercial Lugers are not marked the same as military Lugers.

Not trying to be smart, but are you certain you know where to look for numbers? For starters look on the underside of the barrel closest to the "frame".

All commercial and military Lugers had their frames marked......along with many other parts in various positions. If this Luger has NO serial numbers on the frame in front of the trigger guard, then that could well be a problem.

could be, or likely not,

if bubber the carjacker took an angle grinder to the serial, then likely an issue
if it was removed unintentionally during a refinish then likely not

think of it this way
there are hundreds if not thousands of Winchester Hi and Lo Walls (1885) out there,
the serial number as placed on the tang,

however, they were a popular benchrest/varmint type gun back in the day, and may tangs were cut, welded, polished or altered in a way that the serial number was eliminated,

I've bought and sold about a dozen over the years, and been thru ATF Compliance audits with them in stock,
no one cares

I've heard of no serial number guns that were used by governments. I think I remember reading that the German government sent firearms to the Irish resistance during WWI that had no serial numbers or other identifying marks. You might also remember the 7.62 CIA, a 7.62x39 round with no head stamps or other identifying marks given out by the CIA during the Vietnam war. You might have acquired a luger with an interesting but hidden past.