I have a P239 that needs some love. I don't know how the previous owner caused so much wear on the frame backstrap, but the anodization is worn off there. I'd like to have this redone in electroless nickel or hard chrome. Wright Armory is now offering their version of NP3, but they won't touch aluminum frames. CCR won't either. Mahovsky doesn't answer the phone or emails. Whom should I try next?

Maybe just Cerakote or equivalent, they don't have to completely remove all anodizing.

I've used:
https://apwcogan.com/

They do a lot of OEM plating for Colt and S&W.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Wright Armory is now offering their version of NP3, but they won't touch aluminum frames.

They do, according to their website's info page on the new finish (called NT7).

https://wrightarmory.com/nt7-metal-finishing/

That one looks good. Will call them in a bit.

I called Wright Armory a few weeks ago and they said they would not strip and refinish aluminum frames. Maybe I'll try them again and see if someone else answers the call and gives me a different answer.

Anodizing transforms the outer aluminum layer. The color is a dye.

You can’t remove the aluminum oxide layer without affecting the part strength.

If you want a nice looking frame you must recoat.

4MUL8R is correct about aluminum parts having the original anodizing layer removed will have reduced strength.
Another concern not mentioned is the part size dimensionally.
If you chemically strip an aluminum frame that was anodized before, you end up with external features (such as frame rails) being smaller.
Internal features (such as takedown lever, trigger pin, hammer pin, sear pin, grip screw) critical pin holes & machined internal features will now be larger.
Bigger internal & hole features, and smaller external dimensional features, and overall weaker frame structure is just bad all around on an aluminum frame firearm.
Generally speaking, when an aluminum part is anodized, for every 0.001" of anodization buildup, it has also penetrated 0.001" into the base aluminum substrate surface.
When you chemically strip all of the anodizing away, the external raised anodization and the anodizing penetrating into the aluminum substrate is removed.
The result is dimensional changes that cannot be undone.
There is a reason most reputable firearm refinishers won't strip an anodized aluminum firearm frame. It's just a bad practice.

When I joined this Forum in 2009, a very popular topic for discussion back then was worn anodization on SIG P series aluminum pistol frames.
Dozens if not hundreds of discussions and photos of worn anodization on P series frames.
Pages of discussion on what the different colors seen in the worn anodizing actually meant.
Frame rails in particular, especially on P229 models.
The common answer was grease it up and shoot it some more!

I've only bought one P series SIG pistol with an aluminum frame, and soon after purchasing, gifted it to a friend.
All of my other SIG pistols are stainless steel frame variants.
At present, SIG seems to only manufacture one P series pistol with a stainless frame, the P220 in 10mm.
To me, that's a crying shame.
I know, personal choices and all that.
The stainless steel frame SIG P series is what originally brought me to this wonderful Forum.

No worries, I have enough stainless steel frame P series handguns to last me the rest of my life.
See my CUT at the left.

Yeah, sounds like you're phrasing your request wrong.

You're not looking to strip anodization... They won't do that, for the reasons discussed above.

Instead, talk to them about your options for coating over the factory anodized frame.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Anodizing transforms the outer aluminum layer. The color is a dye.

You can’t remove the aluminum oxide layer without affecting the part strength.

If you want a nice looking frame you must recoat.

This. You can't remove anodizing without damaging the frame. I don't know if you can plate anodized aluminum (with chrome or nickle) at all, but I don't think you can.

You can coat it with some sort of paint or epoxy, like Ceracoat or even some of the sexier but similar coatings.

Anodizing is aluminum oxide.
Aluminum oxide is an electrical insulator, so it is my understanding that electroplating is not used, and cannot be used on anodized surfaces.
Unless they are stripped first to a raw aluminum surface before electroplating.
Electroplating is defined as using electricity applied in a chemical bath to move material from a source material to a host material.

Electroless plating is done without the application of electricity. It is an auto-catalytic process chemical reaction.
I just don't know enough about the process to know if you can electrolessly plate on top of an anodized part.
Electroless Nickel, NP3, NP3+ are all done in the auto-catalytic manner.

Here we go again with stripping off the anodization will essentially render the gun useless. Sure, you will turn the tool into crap, if you don't know what you're doing, but that goes for anything in life.

If you have the expertise to do the work right, things will turn out just fine. Just look at the Robar NP3 and the Klein Nickel plated SIGs. The aluminum alloy frames are stripped of the anodization before plating. Have you heard these guns failing left and right?

Oh, you mean like a Klein (SIG preferred Ni vendor in the day) SIG P228 with cracked frame rails?
I have actually heard of at least one.
Failing left and right? Hell no.
But likely the reason for failing was the stripping and Ni plating.
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/5690009254/p/6

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Here we go again with stripping off the anodization will essentially render the gun useless. Sure, you will turn the tool into crap, if you don't know what you're doing, but that goes for anything in life.

If you have the expertise to do the work right, things will turn out just fine. Just look at the Robar NP3 and the Klein Nickel plated SIGs. The aluminum alloy frames are stripped of the anodization before plating. Have you heard these guns failing left and right?

I didn't remember that they removed the anodizing from frames before Robar put NP3 on them, but maybe they did. NP3 is gone anyway, but Wright Armory now has something they call NP7, which sounds like they replicated the NP3 recipe/process. The website doesn't say anything about whether they remove the anodizing first.

Josh at AAGW in Bethel Park PA will strip and send out for Type III hard coat. They bead blast or use a weak muriatic acid and then do Type III. Been very happy with all the work they've done for me so far including custom machine work.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
Josh at AAGW in Bethel Park PA will strip and send out for Type III hard coat. They bead blast or use a weak muriatic acid and then do Type III. Been very happy with all the work they've done for me so far including custom machine work.

They don't usually dye type III anodizing - I don't think it works all that well because it is denser than type II. Does your guy?

I guess the potential problem is dimensional stability, but if they maintain the proper dimensions throughout, it should work.

"Spec+ Type 3 Hardcoat Pistol Frame"

https://alleghenyarms.com/services/

They've done a Beretta 92 frame for me years ago that started off as Inox but the clear ano reacted with hand salts and turned black. It came out great

I guess I'm not sure what I need. Some of the frame is already worn down beyond the anodization, as in it's shiny, silver-looking, bare aluminum where really worn. In that case, do they have to strip the whole thing to get back to a uniform tolerance with re-anodization or refinishing?

As I understand it, at least with wear on the underside of the rail, shiny silver-like it better than dull Grey. You may still be looking at anodized material. Cerakote sounds like a reasonable solution.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Here we go again with stripping off the anodization will essentially render the gun useless. Sure, you will turn the tool into crap, if you don't know what you're doing, but that goes for anything in life.

If you have the expertise to do the work right, things will turn out just fine. Just look at the Robar NP3 and the Klein Nickel plated SIGs. The aluminum alloy frames are stripped of the anodization before plating. Have you heard these guns failing left and right?

I didn't remember that they removed the anodizing from frames before Robar put NP3 on them, but maybe they did. NP3 is gone anyway, but Wright Armory now has something they call NP7, which sounds like they replicated the NP3 recipe/process. The website doesn't say anything about whether they remove the anodizing first.

I wrote both Robar (website) and Klein (their President) and asked, and the answer is yes, they did. They had to strip off the anodization in order to plate the guns.

Direct quote from Robar:
"Sir,
If we are plating the aluminum part with NP3, NP3 Plus, or our E-Nickel, then we must strip the hard anodizing from the aluminum so that the nickel teflon or e-nickel will bond to the aluminum substrate. If we are just coating the aluminum parts with Roguard, PolyT2, Cerakote, or Duracoat then we don't need to strip the hard anodizing.

The confusion probably come from people not understanding the difference between plating and coating. We hope this helps."


Direct quote from Klein:
"In terms of the prep work for plating a Sig, both the bluing and anodizing were removed after the firearm was completely disassembled. These coatings are basically super imposed oxides that form a protective barrier for the basis metal. Removing all surface oxides is a vital step in the plating process, so you generally cannot plate over them (although there are a few proprietary processes for it). When KPW plated a Sig, the frame’s anodizing was stripped off through a chemical procedure then glass beaded for uniformity and further cleaning prior to entering the electroless nickel plating process."


And, according to Wright, the NT7 is just Nickel-Teflon, just like Robar's NP3. The composition percentage might be different, but they are essentially the same. So, I'll make an educated guess that they will have to strip off the anodization, also. From the link I posted above,

quote:

NT7® is a surface treatment for steel and metal alloys that combines sub-micron particles of PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene), otherwise known as Teflon, with electroless nickel. The application of NT7® is auto-catalytic or electroless. This process is preferable to standard electrolytic plating as all active surfaces are plated with uniform thickness, which is crucial when working with firearms.

Coating thickness can be maintained to within .0002″ or two ten thousandths of one inch, guaranteeing consistent quality coatings. With the PTFE evenly distributed and locked into the nickel-phosphorus matrix, NT7® is a true composite. If wear occurs, fresh particles of PTFE are exposed to keep the opposing surfaces lubricated throughout the life of the coating, which produces a true dry film self-lubricating finish.