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Lost |
Would you use a closely-toleranced match-grade barrel in a combat or carry pistol? Or would you just be putting yourself at increased risk for jamming at a critical time? | ||
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Oriental Redneck |
Once the fitting has been done, and the gun functions as it should, no problems with me. Q | |||
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Member |
This and about 4-500 rounds through it without any issues... good then ! | |||
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| Lost |
Nice. | |||
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Member |
What kind of appreciable improvement in accuracy could you expect from match grade vs OEM? Are we talking something like 1/4" tighter groupings at 7 yards? | |||
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| Freethinker |
If a “match” barrel fits the slide more closely than the standard barrel in a gun that was originally intended for use under adverse conditions when it might be exposed to increased environmental “challenges,” or when it couldn’t be cleaned as often or completely, then of course there’s a danger of poorer reliability. Loose tolerances that tolerate dirt, debris, firing residues, poor lubrication, or even a bit of rust and poor ammunition are a characteristic of reliable combat weapons like the AK series of rifles. Does that mean that autoloading pistols with close tolerance match barrels can’t be used for carry purposes if they’re maintained properly? No, but if a gun is going to fail because of lack of perfect maintenance or something that happens at a critical moment like being dropped in mud or loose dirt, it will be the target gun first before a pistol like a Glock, P220/226, or original 1911 that was designed and intended to be used by military forces. That’s also why such weapons don’t have the stupid lightening openings that allow stuff to easily get inside between the slide and barrel. Most civilian users of such guns have no conception of what adverse conditions are really like. How many of us spend several hours in concentrated training sessions (much less combat) in which we’re down and up continuously in loose dirt and sand with our pistols in open top holsters? I observed that training a few days ago and it drove home why military weapons are made the way they are. Will a match gun survive that? Possibly, but the question is which is more likely to fail, and the answer is obvious. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Member |
No, what purpose would it serve for that use? | |||
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| Member |
The only issue I have had, and still do on occasion is with my Dan Wesson Guardian in 9mm. Which has a very tight chamber. Keep in mind I have fired over 1000 rounds of lead ammo without cleaning through the same gun. The issue is that some Factory ammo has an almost glock bulge at the base of the cartridge. Any ammo factory or reload with any kind of bulge at the base will not seat fully into the chamber. Armscor 9, geco 9, Winchester white box. All would have a few rounds out of 100 that would not seat fully. All my defensive ammo seats fully. Usually, though I pop the barrel, drop the defensive roundsgoing into the mag in the chamber. Just to be sure they fit. Then load the mag. I can't remember 1 defensive round not seating fully. Cheap ball ammo I shoot, that is where I have problems. Oddly enough the chamber was so friggen tight when i got it, the gun would only feed Tula steel cased. After 500 rounds, a cleaning, then another 500, I was able to run the cheap brass through the gun more reliable. I have 10k through the gun now, I have many fewer issues. I don't nessisarily blame the gun, as its chamber is tight. When putting a round in that does not seat fully, you can see where it has a lil buldge by the base. | |||
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| 7.62mm Crusader |
This is a absolute. You do change the pistols dynamics when you add and fit a match barrel. Guns so altered are generally changed for range and competeing. Along with other modifications. I'd think at defense gun shooting distances, pretty much all factory original barrels are more than capable to place accurate shots. | |||
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| Member |
I wouldn't change to a match barrel for a carry gun. Aside from having it fitted properly. Match barrels generally have tighter chambers and might not reliable chamber all types of ammo 100% of the time. They also can be susceptible to a stoppage sooner in dirty conditions etc. I would really lean to keeping a carry gun bone stock, unless there is a really good reason to put an aftermarket part in there (aside from sites). | |||
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| Member |
I wouldn't go through the expense of it as any theoretical accuracy increase would be inconsequential to a combat/carry gun. It isn't about what you can do standing on a sunny range shooting paper under no stress, but what you can do in low light shooting at a human who is moving and shooting back. I think a P120 and a Keltec would group similar in the latter circumstances. Then there are possible reliability issues... “People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik Be harder to kill: https://preparefit.ck.page | |||
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fugitive from reality |
A properly fitted match grade barrel will have no effect or reliability. Notice I said properly. Some guns are more difficult to fit than others so it pays to have a knowledgable gunsmith do the work. All my factory original handguns group well enough out to 25 yards, so I've never felt the need to fit any of them with a target barrel. My target guns are another matter. I need a gun that holds 2" at 50 yards, so it's a must for those guns. _____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
That is really the bottom line. If my gun will hold 2" at 25 yards, I don't think it needs much more fussing...but then I only expect 4" at 50 yards for a defensive handgun No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
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| Freethinker |
Mention of tight “match” chambers is something I forgot originally, but it’s probably more significant than the tight fit of the barrel in the slide. Glocks are rightly known for their reliability, and part of that’s because of their generous chambers that will accept ammunition that’s defective, dirty, improperly sized, or when the chamber itself is dirty, etc. A case fired in a Glock chamber often won’t fit into a SIG chamber, and yet I’ve seen posts complaining about how SIG chambers are supposedly oversized. And unlike functioning stoppages, a round that’s jammed into an undersized chamber can result in a jam that can’t be cleared short of driving the cartridge out with a rod. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Member |
I checked my Glock 22 chamber against my P226/.40 chamber a few years ago and the Glock chamber is .006" larger than the Sig, and the Sig isn't what I would consider tight. | |||
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The Great Equalizer |
My first question is what is wrong with the Factory supplied barrel that you feel/felt the need to change it? That said, factory original barrel or any replacement barrel, if the pistol functions flawlessly for 500 consecutive rounds with your carry ammunition I would be comfortable carrying it for personal defense as a civilian If going into combat with it, that would be a totally different situation. ------------------------------------------------------------------ NRA Benefactor . . . Certified Instructor . . . Certified RSO SWCA 356TSW.com 45talk.com RacingPlanetUSA.Com | |||
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| Member |
of course statistically that number of rounds is not even close to a good confidence level on a sample of 1. To the original question, me personally I would never run a match grade barrel in a combat pistol. It's the opposite of what's required. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
I see no problems in running a properly fitted match barrel in a carry gun. People that carry high end 1911s do it all the time. Much of the argument comes from the perspectives of what people perceive that they need. Or don’t need in cases. Myself I want the most accuracy that I can squeeze out of anything. I’m not a fan of statistical gun fighting. I don’t get to choose the time and place. I don’t get to choose the conditions. If I did, I’d have a rifle in my hands. Ask yourself this. In an active shooter, do you want the guy that has trained for the statistical gun fight. Or do you want the guy that has the gear and ability to decide which eye the two rounds go through? When it comes to rescuing your kids or family? There are no right or wrong answers that end a debate. But, me, myself and I have always leaned toward the absolute most accurate handgun that I can lay hands on. I also ask when people claim that gunfighting isn’t bullseye shooting, why not? Only hits win. If I can deliver that bullseye hit at speed, It’ll always be better than statistical gun fights. When a good gunsmith properly hand fits a quality barrel, and you use quality ammo, the reliability is there. There is also a difference in perceived recoil with tighter lock up. A minor advantage, but lots of little things add up. Again, no right or wrong answers, just different perspectives. A match barrel won’t make the untrained faster or more accurate. | |||
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| 7.62mm Crusader |
I believe a high end 1911 is somewhat fitted all around. All its parts have been tuned for function and little tolerence. Sure, there are costly 1911s intended for defense but they are the acception here. A tightly fitted 1911, and there are not many other designs which get that kind of treatments, is indeed more likely to malfunction do to known elements. A tightly fitted 1911 can become a loose goose yet remain reliable, after much use and field stripping. I will guess, in a gun fight, if the piece remains functional throughout, its what one needs. Most defense guns on the market even get pitched to have match barrels. The new Glock for one. | |||
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| Lost |
Some very interesting perspectives, thank you all. In answer to the other question, there could be several answers. First, suppose you acquired a gun which already had a competition barrel, but wanted it for carry purposes. You'd downgrade it if necessary, but would like to know it it's really justified. Second, there's times when extreme accuracy is not at all excessive, e.g. as mentioned above a hostage situation. Or in combat and you're engaging at what is normally rifle distances. The liklihood of these kind of scenarios is not very high for most people, I realize, but it's at least worth asking the question from knowledgeable people. A full match bbl from Barsto is speced at 5" @ 100 yards. Wow, the capability of making a headshot with a pistol at that range at least makes me curious. | |||
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