I could use some expert advice in identifying a P225.

- "P225" on right side of slide
- matching triple serial number M5534xx
- serial numbers on left side of barrel and right side of slide and frame
- "Sig Sauer" on left side of barrel and slide
- "9mm Para" and Swiss proof mark on right side of barrel
- German Eagle-over-N nitro proof on right side of barrel and frame

Now for the part that confuses me:
- it has a button mag release
- there is nothing on the right side of the slide under "P225" (it does NOT say either "Made in W Germany" or "Montage Suisse")
- there is no Swiss proof mark on the slide
- there are no Canton insignias on the gun

Finally, it has finish wear on the top and right side of the slide that is commonly seen on guns carried in Swiss police holsters.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gc70, June 02, 2017 02:29 PM

Picture?

No Canton insignia?

quote:

button mag release

Picture?

So there are no German proof marks, including a date code, on the slide chin?

I will venture my guess. The serial number puts the gun at 1986. I think it was German made for the European market as it has "Germany" on the right side of the slide instead of "Made in W Germany". I think it was sold commercially in Switzerland, which is why there is a Swiss proof mark on the barrel, but no Swiss Canton coat of arms. I don't believe the button mag release means anything because most of the P225s I have seen have them rather than the heel release. All of the heel release P225s I have seen have either been Swiss police issue, or "Montage Suisse", neither of which applies to your gun.

Others may correct my observations and/or question my conclusions. I look forward to other opinions.

"Germany" and "P W Arms Redmond WA" appear to have been done the same way (engraving pen?) and are substantially different in appearance from other lettering.

There are proof marks and a date code on the chin of the slide. I did not write down that information or take a photo of it.

quote:

Originally posted by gc70:
"Germany" and "P W Arms Redmond WA" appear to have been done the same way (engraving pen?) and are substantially different in appearance from other lettering.

There are proof marks and a date code on the chin of the slide. I did not write down that information or take a photo of it.

Suisse police/mil trade-in.
It's just a P225 that was proofed in Germany, then proofed again in Switzerland. The "Germany" and "P W Arms Redmond WA" are done later, the "P W Arms Redmond WA" definitely much later, by PW Arms, when they imported the gun.

That PW Arms import mark is pretty good, compared to some we have seen. Some were so bad, it looked like a money with a chisel made some of them.

You have a very nice P-225.

I have a P225 that was a bring back, that has no country of origin markings on it. Just the typical Germany proof marks and triple serial numbers. "P225" on right side, and "SIG SAUER" on left side of the slide.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
I have a P225 that was a bring back, that has no country of origin markings on it. Just the typical Germany proof marks and triple serial numbers. "P225" on right side, and "SIG SAUER" on left side of the slide.

Does the absence of "Made in W Germany" or "Montage Suisse" indicate the gun was originally intended for the German domestic market rather than for export?

quote:

Originally posted by gc70:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
I have a P225 that was a bring back, that has no country of origin markings on it. Just the typical Germany proof marks and triple serial numbers. "P225" on right side, and "SIG SAUER" on left side of the slide.

Does the absence of "Made in W Germany" or "Montage Suisse" indicate the gun was originally intended for the German domestic market rather than for export?

PW arms was required to identify the country of origin on the weapon it imported, regardless where it was imported from. It was not intended for export when first made, but would still have required proofing in Germany and again in Switzerland where sold.

Is there any restriction on where the import mark has to be? I have never seen one on the slide...always on the frame or does it have to be open a part considered the "firearm" by the ATF?

I am also looking at the frame and it seems to have a strong radius around the edge. I am looking at my P6 (maybe totally different) and it has a very defined sharp edge. I can understand there might be differences in production. Would there be any other reason for the variation?

quote:

Originally posted by gordynismo:
Is there any restriction on where the import mark has to be? I have never seen one on the slide...always on the frame or does it have to be open a part considered the "firearm" by the ATF?

I am also looking at the frame and it seems to have a strong radius around the edge. I am looking at my P6 (maybe totally different) and it has a very defined sharp edge. I can understand there might be differences in production. Would there be any other reason for the variation?

Import marks can be anywhere on the gun (frame, slide, barrel), but must be "conspicuous".
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/f...erification-overview

quote:

Name of Importer

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the importer’s name must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch

City & State of the Importer

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide

For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping (impressing) of the importer’s city and state must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch

Some importers tried to put their import marks under the grips (not very "conspicuous"), and apparently got into hot water with the ATF. They subsequently had to put the marks out in the open.

ETA: Here is an example. Roco Firearm Technology, when they first imported the X-guns, their import marks were hidden under the grips, like the case of this X-Six Classic.



Their latest offering, this X-Five Classic, has the import marks in plain sight. Sorry to say that, whoever that did the engraving did a very amateur job, literally butchering a high end gun.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 12131, June 03, 2017 02:21 AM

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Suisse police/mil trade-in.
It's just a P225 that was proofed in Germany, then proofed again in Switzerland. The "Germany" and "P W Arms Redmond WA" are done later, the "P W Arms Redmond WA" definitely much later, by PW Arms, when they imported the gun.

If this is a Swiss police trade-in, then shouldn't there be a canton coat of arms?

no. It common but not the rule. IMO its a common Eckefördern made P 225 sold in Switzerland on the commercial market, probably to a LEO institution. The commercial market includes LEO sales.

The absence of the "Made in..." markings is common for such pistols, because import regulations varied from country to country. What's mandatory for Importing guns into the US is different from importing guns into a another country.

The "Germany" marking is mandatory for a couple of years for all guns exportes from countries that agreed on the here heavily dicussesd and bashed UN small arms treaty. This marking is redundant with the DE markings found on recently made pistol. Marking the guns accordingly that is wha the treaty was all about.

quote:

Originally posted by wgsigs:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Suisse police/mil trade-in.
It's just a P225 that was proofed in Germany, then proofed again in Switzerland. The "Germany" and "P W Arms Redmond WA" are done later, the "P W Arms Redmond WA" definitely much later, by PW Arms, when they imported the gun.

If this is a Swiss police trade-in, then shouldn't there be a canton coat of arms?

OTD already answered you. But, here is another example of a Suisse police trade-in, a KK P228 I got from Robertson, that has the German proof marks at the usual places, and Suisse proof mark on the barrel, but no coat of arms anywhere on the gun.

Thanks to everyone! The level of knowledge on this forum is absolutely incredible.

I have one almost like yours. The serial number on mine is 553 2xx, very close to yours. the difference is mine has the crest of the Swiss province of Solothurn on the top of the slide.