quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?

All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.

I haven’t seen enough facts or evidence to either doubt or believe her story. Before forming a conclusion, I’d really like to know:

a) exactly which holster she was wearing;
b) which belt she was using, and which direction she was pulling it through; and
c) how she was holding the holster in her hand.

d) weight of ball peen hammer used to hit the rear of the slide to force the holstered pistol over the "first toof"

TBH. Screw fake news for putting this half-assed story out there. It makes no sense. All it adds up to is influencing a jury pool.

Let’s look at two possible explanations.

1) The story says that she was using a “Sig-manufactured holster.” The only P320 belt loop holsters on the Sig website are Kydex. They are NOT retention holsters with a snap closure—-the gun is secured by the Kydex form, particularly around the trigger guard. Any significant pull or force on the gun will break a pistol free from this type of Kydex holster. Turning even a well-formed Kydex holster upside-down will usually cause a fully-loaded pistol to fall out.

So—-while pulling her belt through the holster’s belt loops, could she have held her P320 by the grip, pulled on her belt a little too hard, dislodged the gun from the holster far enough to expose the trigger, and accidentally either pulled the trigger herself or caught it on the sweat shield?

2) The incident happened exactly as she claimed.

Either is possible. But there is almost no way that even an early edition P320 that was properly holstered could get jostled hard enough for the trigger to move and fire the gun.

Let’s say I’m skeptical.

Shake the money tree, see what falls out.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Wreckless:
But in 2016, when the manufacturer was closing a deal with the Army, the Army found that occasionally when the gun was dropped it would fire by itself. As a condition of the deal, Sig Sauer upgraded the firearms to fix the problem, but the company then sold the pre-upgrade version to the general public for several months, according to a CNN investigation.

While her story may be in doubt, this is what interests me...

That's why it's termed a "Voluntary Upgrade" not a recall. If they called it a recall, that could be construed as an admission.

The P320 should be recalled and all non-upgraded pistols should be fixed using proper terminology.

I hate it when firearms spontaneously discharge.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?

All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.

When I worked in LE you removed your side arm and made it safe before removing duty gear. Department policy. Very safe and sound as a unloaded gun can't have a ND or AD. Long guns kept in vehicles never had a round in the chamber. Again, department policy. Not ever one does the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Wreckless:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!? Seems to me she needs more firearms safety training.

That is exactly how you are taught to remove it unless you are at an approved clearing location (sand barrel) or on the line at the range. It is a police training thing. You generally can't have an ND if the firearm remains holstered.

I was trained very differently. Remove mag from holstered side arm, un-holster, make safe, gear down. Unloading of your side arm could only be done in two places of the building.

Like I said this story is not adding up at all.

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?

All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.

When I worked in LE you removed your side arm and made it safe before removing duty gear. Department policy. Very safe and sound as a unloaded gun can't have a ND or AD. Long guns kept in vehicles never had a round in the chamber. Again, department policy. Not ever one does the same thing.

Thanks for replying, that certainly makes sense for a uniformed LEO.

A bit more difficult for a CCW civilian why may need to disarm regularly throughout the course of the day and is likely prevented by the law and common sense from just removing the weapon from the holster, unloading, and securing it in a car or other locations.

For me, a quality drop safe firearm in a quality holster has less of a change of an ND by staying IN the holster when being taken off. But that's just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?

All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.

When I worked in LE you removed your side arm and made it safe before removing duty gear. Department policy. Very safe and sound as a unloaded gun can't have a ND or AD. Long guns kept in vehicles never had a round in the chamber. Again, department policy. Not ever one does the same thing.

You still didn't answer what is wrong with removing holster with gun in it? This is how I do it. Unsnap holster remove with gun safely in holster and set it beside my desk. When I want to carry it again I put it back on with gun in holster.

What is wrong with doing it this way? Question is for anyone that can answer,not just 4859.

Based on the description of this incident, the only thing I can figure is she had something inside her holster like a string or piece of clothing that snagged the trigger and caused the discharge when she removed her holster. The article doesn't say the holster or gun was dropped, so it doesn't sound like a drop safety/voluntary upgrade issue to me...more like user error.

A holster covering the trigger is a base line for holster selection, and what time is it more important than manipulating the firearm during disarming? Keeping the trigger covered reduces the risk of an accidental discharge. I have a feeling that this poorly written news story isn't paining a clear picture of the events. I also wouldn't put much stock in Chinesium sigtac products.i

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?

All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.

When I worked in LE you removed your side arm and made it safe before removing duty gear. Department policy. Very safe and sound as a unloaded gun can't have a ND or AD. Long guns kept in vehicles never had a round in the chamber. Again, department policy. Not ever one does the same thing.

You still didn't answer what is wrong with removing holster with gun in it? This is how I do it. Unsnap holster remove with gun safely in holster and set it beside my desk. When I want to carry it again I put it back on with gun in holster.

What is wrong with doing it this way? Question is for anyone that can answer,not just 4859.

Pretty sure I did. Sorry you can't understand.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Some thing isn't right with this story. Also, who the hell leaves a loaded gun in a holster while taking off or on a belt or your body?!?!?

All the time. With a quality holster and firearm, it’s a non issue.

Especially if I need to remove the weapon in a vehicle and secure it, then put it back on when returning.

But please enlighten me if you have some known safety practice with data to prove this practice unsound.

When I worked in LE you removed your side arm and made it safe before removing duty gear. Department policy. Very safe and sound as a unloaded gun can't have a ND or AD. Long guns kept in vehicles never had a round in the chamber. Again, department policy. Not ever one does the same thing.

Thanks for replying, that certainly makes sense for a uniformed LEO.

A bit more difficult for a CCW civilian why may need to disarm regularly throughout the course of the day and is likely prevented by the law and common sense from just removing the weapon from the holster, unloading, and securing it in a car or other locations.

For me, a quality drop safe firearm in a quality holster has less of a change of an ND by staying IN the holster when being taken off. But that's just my opinion.

No it is not a bit more difficult for a CCW civilian. I am now a CCW civilian and still don't take off a holstered loaded gun off my belt. Safe gun handling no knows bounds. Sorry you and someone else in this thread doesn't understand that. When you un-holster a gun you have full 100% control of it.

Don't remember removing my holster from my duty rig very often. Usually only when I was putting on a new holster.

Most cops are not gun guys. The more you make a habit of loading/unloading guns as part of procedure, the greater chance you have of the gun going boom because of user error.

One agency I know of has a policy of loading/unloading guns as procedure in certain locations. Almost 1/25 times its an ND. Fatigue plays a huge role. Most agencies (at least where I'm from) don't allow their officers to load/unload before or after a range session except as a group on the line, facing down range. Too many examples of cops being killed and wounded every year. So, they come off of the street loaded, you herd them onto the line, unload everyone as a group, and at the end of the day, take everyone back to the line and load them up.

And it is just not cops. I've ran classes with some high speed .mil guys in it. None had an ND in my classes but they'd be behind the line and "wake up" with a gun in their hand. Was in a class down at Rogers where a SEAL shot a trap house "dry firing" on a hot range. It happens, I suppose.

No, I'm not a fan of this. But, the realities of training time and expense being what it is for the rank and file, it's necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
No it is not a bit more difficult for a CCW civilian. I am now a CCW civilian and still don't take off a holstered loaded gun off my belt. Safe gun handling no knows bounds. Sorry you and someone else in this thread doesn't understand that. When you un-holster a gun you have full 100% control of it.

I honestly see no need to unload a firearm in a vehicle when I'm prevent from carrying into a location, I simply take off the holster and lock it, then do the reverse when I get back in the car.

Of course I don't have the 'comfort' of having a badge, a.k.a. 'get out of jail free card' should a cop or someone else notice me handing a weapon in a car downtown, or some other high traffic place.

As I asked in my first post, which you avoided, can you point to an actual gun handling safety rule that says you shouldn't take a holster off with a weapon in it, I'm all ears.

What do other LEOs, detectives, etc do when you have to take off a weapon to go in a jail (?) or holding area you maybe can't carry?

I'm reading the article as the gun was in the holster when it fired? Clarity is not their strong suit.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
What do other LEOs, detectives, etc do when you have to take off a weapon to go in a jail (?) or holding area you maybe can't carry?

Common practice is that you unholster the loaded pistol and put it in the lock box in the sallyport. You also put your car keys in with it. (this way you can't become distracted and drive off without your gun - we're dealing with cops here, ya know)

At the end of your business, you go get the pistol and put it back into the holster.

At night, I put my duty gun up just like this.