So since MRDS are all the rage and while I still feel like they are in their childhood, not infancy but we will say childhood , it’s fairly obvious that much like rifle optics they will eventually be common place.

My question revolves around vision / astigmatism issues.

When I run red dots on rifles I get the normal blotchy dot. Now mine is not nearly as bad as I have heard some describe but it is a lot of “work” for me to see a crisp dot. This is no problem for fast acquisition and hits, where it lets me down is if I want to shoot far more precisely.

Now where I am going with this is that I know a MRDS will aid in fast target acquisition and hits but at least in my very limited experience they don’t help me at longer ranges or more precise stuff and that is technically one of the benefits of the pistol dots, no?

If any of you run dots MRDS/pistol optics with an astigmatism what is your sense of things? I am sure I will dip my toes into this water once again at some point and I was curious to hear other folks opinions as far as more precise accuracy goes or should I look at these as a purely “gross but fast sighting” tool.

As always. Thanks all.
Take care, shoot safe.
Chris

Interesting you should mention this as I was just thinking about it yesterday.

I bought a Sig P365 Romeo Zero, which is the small reflex red dot.

I was dry firing and looking at the dot and it was round, crisp and stood out nicely.

Then I thought about the fact that I have some astigmatism that's corrected in my glasses, so I took off the glasses and looked at the dot and sure enough, it wasn't round any more. It looked like it would work fine for my intended purpose, but for precision, no it wouldn't work.

So my suggestion to you is to get your astigmatism corrected through glasses or contacts or whatever method you choose and this will become a non issue.

I do have glasses. Crappy eyes all my life. C’est La vie.

That said even though with glasses I can see a fairly crisp’ish dot shooting a non etched dot or crosshair for precision creates a ton of eye strain for me. Etched reticles (scopes) or irons present no problems here.

Thanks much,
Chris

For rifles I just flip up the rear sight and look through the aperture if I need to see it crisp.

Green doesn't seem to effect it as bad.
Pistols I just turn down the brightness.

I'm due for some new bifocals and am getting this taken care of.
It would be nice to see a "dot" like it's supposed to be.
That and night driving is a real chore now, especially if it's raining.

quote:

For rifles I just flip up the rear sight and look through the aperture if I need to see it crisp.

I do as well.

Stop worrying about what the dot looks like. It does not matter. Focus on the target, not the dot. It’s not meant to be a front sight.

I have astigmatism in my dominant eye.

With red dots, the dot looks like a comma if I focus directly on the dot. However, when I'm using a proper target focus as one should when utilized red dots, the superimposed dot is perfectly round and its function is not impeded.

Same thing applies to both pistol and rifle red dots.

Edit: Great minds thing alike, Jones.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Stop worrying about what the dot looks like. It does not matter. Focus on the target, not the dot.

This ^^^^^

Look "through" the dot. Focus on the target. The dot will superimpose itself right where you want it. (it took me a bit to figure this part out with my astigmatism)

quote:

Originally posted by Delta-3:
Look "through" the dot. Focus on the target. The dot will superimpose itself right where you want it. (it took me a bit to figure this part out with my astigmatism)

I do this with dots on rifles I guess my mind is stuck on pistol front sight focus.

If you were to go with an optic current or being released what would you go with? Quality and durability first and foremost with price as no consideration. Ok well it’s a consideration I am sure there is some new VR/HOLO $50,000 secret squirrel DARPA thing somebody knows about….but I mean within the normal realm of quality red dots (Aimpoint, Trijicon, Leupold etc. ).

Thanks all.
Chris

The Trijicon RMR is the gold standard for real-world duty-rated optics.

Quite frankly, if you are messing around, pick one.

Duty use, Trijicon RMR06 or RMR07. Aimpoint Acro is also a good choice.

I’ve got a LOT of time behind the Romeo 1’s but I’ve been carrying a RMR06 at work for about 4 years. The RMR is where it is at.

One more question. Do suppressor height sights help or hinder dot use or conversely Do you find the dot “window” to act as a, for lack of a better term, huge ghost ring/point shooting aid if the dot dies.

Although I have used rifle dots for a very long time with no issue I still have this underlying fear that the dot is going to go down when needed most hence all my guns have irons dot or no.

Suppressor height sights don’t help or hinder. Start watching some of Aaron Cowans videos on parallax and focal planes. This will explain it easier than I can type it.

Will do. Thanks much.

.

A few years ago, I talked to my eye doc who is also a shooter about MRDS on pistols and my astigmatism.

Doc suggested I move to Scleral Contacts, I did and it cleared my astigmatism. With Scleral Contacts, tail-lights on cars at night, runway lights while piloting, or using RMRs at the range are all perfectly round without a trailing dot or a halo day or night.

Bump in the night, I'm grabbing my glasses and have an astigmatism. I learned having an astigmatism does not matter once you understand how MRDS changes your shooting technique and have the experience of using a MRDS.

After getting real hands-on experience using a red dot, I finally understood what people meant by "Both eyes open, focus is on the target not the dot". For me, actually doing it made more sense than just hearing it. I understood that focused on a man-sized target silhouette the astigmatism does not matter.

When I'm at the range where I'm shooting a poker target against my buddies, then absolutely I want my Scleral Contacts because I'm shooting at a small target. Having a tailless red dot caused by astigmatism is better in this type of pin-point shooting because the red dot is not a blob that covers two of the cards at the same time.

I do visit a range where I can shoot in low light with glasses using a red dot to have that experience. Man-sized target silhouette, no issue now that I have the experience and discipline to keep my eyes focused on the target.

I suggest you find a range that offers handgun rentals of pistols with a MRDS mounted. Try it out for yourself, both eyes open and focus on a man-sized silhouette target, attend a MRDS Training Class with a qualified trainer.

Talk with your eye doc about Scleral Lenses, I don't know if they clear everyone's astigmatism. I love them for everything beyond shooting too.


www.YouTube.com/watch?v=SGdhHAZHwmI


This presentation gets a little rough to follow, but overall has some good info about Scieral Contacts:

www.YouTube.com/watch?v=pxfre2tbhUc

.

Yep, focus on the target not the dot.
I still see a flared smudge, just not as bad as when focused on it.

I've been dealing with it for a bit now, the Romeo 1 that I have isn't too bad.
What glasses I'm wearing changes the dot too.
My work glasses which are just uncoated poly are unusable.
Polarized single vision seem to work the best for me.
My main bi-focals don't like red dots, may be due to being progressive.

I tried a Romeo zero and that was unusable for me, huge comet tail on that one.
A Romeo5 XDR with a red dot was sorta usable but the green one works better for me.

I'm cross eye dominate as well and a red dot works out better for me as far as what eye is in the lead.
I still turn my head to the right just a bit like with iron sights though, which I use both eyes also.

I need some new glasses so if they can do something about it that works for me.
My last trip over the coast range in the middle of the night was pretty sketchy, definitely seems to be getting worse with age.

I have pretty good astigmatism that is better with my progressive glasses and even better with my prescription non-progressive shooting glasses. It really doesn’t matter because even with my astigmatism I’d have no problem putting a round within an inch of where I’m aiming even without my glasses. I kicked and screamed and made all kind of excuses as to why I didn’t want to get good with a red dot. It wasn’t until after a attending a class with Jerry where I wouldn’t pull out the RDS gun that was with me that I finally decided to get serious about it. I’ve spent the last year and a half training hard with the RDS and it has made me a better shooter. I have a more consistent, efficient, smoother draw and presentation which also improves my shooting on irons. I have both RMR06 and RMR07 and go back and forth which I like better. I agree with what has been said already, that you are overthinking the whole thing. The learning curve when starting out with a RDS is a humbling process until the whole thing clicks. Then it is easy to pick apart and correct things I was able to hide while shooting irons.

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:
I’ve spent the last year and a half training hard with the RDS and it has made me a better shooter. I have a more consistent, efficient, smoother draw and presentation which also improves my shooting on irons. I have both RMR06 and RMR07 and go back and forth which I like better.

I think this bears repeating.

The kinda funny part of it is that a forum contrarian has made fun of me saying in the past that the RDS forces you to clean up things like your draw, trigger control, etc.

But yet, everyone that gets good with a dot just plain gets better. When you transition back and forth to irons the sights Just magically appear where you are looking. The brain doesn’t have to correct things on the fly. Your trigger control is much much cleaner.......which makes shooting irons so much better.

It’s truly win-win-win. (Bonus if you catch the reference)