quote:

Originally posted by hjs157:
So if I understand correctly, I can legally purchase a firearm at an FFL and immediately gift said firearm to my girlfriend who didn't complete a Form 4473, yet I can not gift her the money to purchase the exact same firearm even though she would actually be completing a Form 4473 at the point of sale?

The second part is not correct. You can gift her the money and say go buy whatever gun you want. What SHE cannot do, is let you buy the gun, ie. on Gunbroker, or in person in your name and using your money, and then answer "yes" on the 4473 that she is the actual purchaser.

You cannot give someone money to buy a gun for you, even if you are legally able to do so yourself. THIS IS THE PART THAT DEFIES COMMON SENSE AND CONFUSES PEOPLE.

Get your comments in. I am sick and tired of looking at this thing. Locked before end of the day today.

For the non-believers that it is a straw purchase.

1) Define the term "buyer";

2) Define the term "transferee;

3) Define the meaning of the backslash in the term "transferee/buyer".

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Get your comments in. I am sick and tired of looking at this thing. Locked before end of the day today.

Winner Winner!!

IBTL
:^)

What the fuck kind of world are we living in if a loving husband cannot spend money to buy his wife a damn gun?

It's going to a FFL, send the man the gun he won and paid for.

If this bothers you, then just stop selling your guns online and not waste people's time.

The Mid Term Exam is in one week.

I am tired of looking at this too. For the record, and someone asked, I am an attorney. I am not a specialist in firearms law, and I don't even practice law anymore, as I'm just involved in my business. But I went to law school, passed the bar, and did practice for 10 years.

I'm not trying to win an argument; I'm just trying to educate people and answer the OP's question. But here are a couple of things that I haven't said yet in this thread, and couple of things that I've said more than once:

1) When we discuss issues of law, we are discussing what legislation and administrative rules say, and what courts have said about those laws and rules.

2) We are discussing, or certainly should be, the current state of the law; not what it should be, used to be, or hope it would be. Nor are we discussing what you can get away with, or the odds of you getting caught.

3) What you think logically makes sense is completely irrelevant in most legal situations, and certainly is in this particular situation, namely straw purchases.

4) The current state of the law and jurisprudence is very clear that whether or not the parties involved in a firearm transfer can legally possess a firearm is not necessarily the determining factor in whether or not a transaction was legal.

5) A person can buy a firearm, fill out the 4473, answer "yes" as the actual purchaser, and then give that firearm as a gift.

6) A person cannot buy a firearm for someone else, and have that person fill out the 4473.

7) If you don't understand how 5) and 6) can both be correct, that is okay-you don't have to understand it, but it is the law.

Lastly, I don't understand why anyone feels the need to buy a gun for someone (spouse) and have that person fill out the 4473. There is no federal "registration". Why would you buy a gun for your wife and have her fill out the 4473? There is no need, and I'll say for the last time, she cannot answer "yes" as the actual purchaser on the 4473. Why do you want her to do it?

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
Lastly, I don't understand why anyone feels the need to buy a gun for someone (spouse) and have that person fill out the 4473. There is no federal "registration". Why would you buy a gun for your wife and have her fill out the 4473? There is no need, and I'll say for the last time, she cannot answer "yes" as the actual purchaser on the 4473. Why do you want her to do it?

Being married, I don't understand how my wife or I could purchase a gun for each other.
Being married, I don't understand how my wife or I could give money to the other to purchase a gun.

We shop together and decide together on a gun we want to buy.
All of our money goes into and comes out of the same bank account.
All guns purchased go in the same safe.

There is no his or her gun until after we purchase it and one of us tends to select guns they like to shoot.
In the instance of 2 M&P Shield .45's we purchased, one became mine when I put a Hogue grip on it and the other became hers with a Talon grip.

Pull a gun out of the safe and I could not tell you who filled out the Form 4473.
Typically if one of us wants to look at something else in the store, the other will fill out the form.

There is no mine and yours at time of purchase.
There is an only who filled out the form 4473.

Finished? Good

locked