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| Member |
Braintrust, In my eternal quest to try to decide between my G43 and Sig 365, I've been doing a lot of side by side shooting, including for groups. That has led me to come to the wise minds and hands here for advice. (The 365 born in October, 2018, by the way, has 800-900 very reliable rounds through it, including 100+ HST 124 and 147.) I really like the feel of the G43 better, but -- forever -- groups consistently left, by about one inch at 7 yards. I may be a little low too, but not much. Doing the side by side with the 365 makes it very clear I don't do that for other guns, like my CZ's, P7's, or even the little Sig 365. So what am I doing and how do I fix it? I have ghost connectors, generally use a Pierce +1 so I have support for my Pinkie, and use Talon grips (sandpaper grips really tighten things up, but we are still left). I do use the front hook trigger guard on all my pistols that have them. Maybe I am pulling too much with my fingers on the trigger guard, but it doesn't seem to happen with anything else so consistently, including other Glocks. The classic handgun diagnostic target would suggest "tightening fingers". My best guess is that it is the not-so-great G43 trigger? I have tried to apply the practice, practice fix, but have many 1000's rounds through G43's, and am not sure I am fixing things, or just cementing bad habits. Have considered trying to just shoot exclusively the G43 to more "get used" to the trigger, but have never done that real consistently because other toys beg for attention. Any guidance appreciated. Scott | ||
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| Member |
I had a similar problem with the Shield. I could see that the sights were straight and not loose on the pistol so I was scratching my head as to what I was doing wrong. The person who I got my carry permit through is also a competition shooter and I asked him for advice. Long story short, I was choking the pistol down causing low left. I had what my friend called a "GI Joe Kung fu death grip" on the pistol. I eased my grip a little and let the pistol recoil and was a lot better. Hope this helps. I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
That would be the most obvious potential source of input errors, but may not be the only source. Try shooting it with a standard two-handed grip, or shoot it one-handed, to see if you're still hitting left.
Don't put too much stock in those "handgun diagnostic targets". They're based on an old chart that was designed for one-handed bullseye-style shooting, so if you try to use them to diagnose two-handed shooting issues, you'll just be chasing your tail. (And even with one-handed shooting, there are often multiple sources of incorrect input, so you can still end up chasing your tail.) | |||
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| That's just the Flomax talking  |
At 7 yards, why is a one inch error even a concern? Just wondering... | |||
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| Member |
If you’ve had the habit of resting your finger on the front of the trigger guard for all such pistols and it’s only this glock that is an issue, don’t be in a hurry to change that grip style now. It may not be currently in style for valid reasons, but it is likely not your real issue. Plus, you want to avoid changing too much and instead focus on what is causing you to drive down the weapon at the point of fire. | |||
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| Member |
Grip the pistol front and rear, not all around. Like a C-clamp, not a strap wrench. My theory is the squarish Glock grips makes for a leverage point. ------------------------------------------------ Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy | |||
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| Member |
If you haven’t already, try shooting slowly from a rest - even a make-shift rest and focus on your groups without any concern for speed. Do your best to concentrate on the squeeze and not anticipating the break. I know that I’m not saying anything new but we all tend to anticipate the break and thus compensate for recoil, etc. Ultimately, strive to eliminate as many variables as possible to determine true POI vs POA. (You might also want to increase the distance to 10-15 yds in such a session.) You should get to a point that you’re confident of POA (or that sights truly need adjustment) and then can transition away from a rest and try to replicate the results. I would be reluctant to start messing with grip right now. Don’t cloud the issue with numerous changes to your shooting style. | |||
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| Member |
I also agree 1" at 7 yards shouldn't be a concern. I would have someone else shoot the pistol and see how it groups for them. It might be that the sights are off and it's not you at all. | |||
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| 7.62mm Crusader |
The best advice I've seen posted here is a video by jljones and surprise, he's shooting a Glock. If someone can again link that please. Cant do it via cell phone. | |||
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| Member |
Had the same issue with every handgun that I have ever shot. Started using the C.A.R. shooting technique and it corrected the issue. Amazing how much more accurate I am using this technique. It also eliminates the need for me to wear glasses while shooting (other than safety glasses). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBBt0d_umXg | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm.  |
That small of an error (which would be ~3 inches at 25 yards) could be just the rear sight needing to be moved to the right a little bit. | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
Interesting technique! In the book "Advanced Handgun Survival Tactics" by David H. Leflet with Curtis Porter, the technique is shown and discussed as the Porter Method and Castle is not credited. The Porter method may not be exactly the same but looks a lot like it. Also in the book "Rattenkrieg" by Robert Taubert the C.A.R. system is explained and shown. Taubert does credit Castle. It looks like considerable training may be required to use in a SHTF situation because of the body's natural reactions to extreme stress. At any rate it looks interesting. I may have to give it a try. Correction: The book "Advanced Hangun Survival Tactics" does credit Paul Castle with developing the CAR shooting system. The book points out the differences between the CAR system and the Porter Method. I had to dig out my copy of the book and reread that section.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ogie, | |||
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| Freethinker |
Yes, it is very informative and I have used the information with excellent results in getting students to correct the exact same problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...Yu3koF4o&app=desktop ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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War Damn Eagle! |
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| Member |
If you are getting good groups and don't shoot left with other guns, why would you NOT move the sights? There's nothing magic about where they are sitting on the slide from the factory. | |||
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| Member |
By the end of my 3rd 50 round session it felt completely natural. The key for me is to place both hands on the pistol while it is close to my body at the bottom of my rib cage as the instructor does. From there it feels completely natural to come up and acquire the target. At 68, I need both distance and reading glasses. This technique eliminates the need for any type of corrective lenses.
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| Member |
If you're asking that in response to the video above your post, in which Mr. Jones suggests that if the sights are centered on the pistol it's probably the shooter and not the gun...He answered the question. Simply because you shoot one pistol well doesn't mean you'll shoot another well. It seems that a fairly large percentage of the glock shooting population comments about how the pistol shoots left. It doesn't. The shooter does. One could move the sights to make up for that, or just learn to shoot it. Moving the sights doesn't fix the problem; it just puts a bandaid over it. If the sights are off, then adjust them...but if they're centered and one is shooting left, don't assume it's the sights. Shoot anything not Glock for 100 or 200 rounds. Then pick up a G34 and snap off ten rounds. Did they group as well as they should? For many, probably not; shooting one pistol is not the same as shooting the other; same fundamentals apply, but simply because one was shooting well with one doesn't mean one has adapted to the other yet. | |||
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| Member |
Thank you all for the very thoughtful replies. Just for the record, I am sure it is the batter and not the bat. I did look at the Jones video -- thanks -- and sneaked out to the range for a bit. Couldn't stay long enough to be sure, but I think it was helpful. Going to keep following that concept. More input also appreciated. | |||
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| 7.62mm Crusader |
Thanks for posting that vid guys. I watched it many times and he is right. Down to 8% battery here. Enjoy. | |||
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| Every day is New Year's Day for Calendar Boy! Oh, and I'm BANNED |
Sometimes you just need to adjust the sights. It's not all that complicate. | |||
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