quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The round pressure (SAAMI standard, vs. +P) has nothing to do with magazine wear on your pistol or any other. Nothing.

147 grain runs fine in the P365.

There's a perception that for a shot to be effective, it has to expand, which is ridiculous. In fact, depending on circumstances, expansion reduces effectiveness by preventing the round from penetrating deep enough to do damage.

The marks on the magazine are not typical of the P365 or it's magazines; I own more than one P365, and a box of magazines for it, with no indications of any such mark. The pictures appear to show mirror images, with the marks appearing right and left of the the centerline of the backstrap of the mag, at the same height and position. They appear to show not only wear, but significant pressure in the same spot.

My first thought was wear from vibration, resting against a carrier or some surface; the fact that the marks mirror one another but are bilateral (left and right) is curious, but not typical of the P365, or P365 magazines.

Well, my concern in firing +P ammo through the pistol moving forward is not so much due to the magazine wear, but what the wear might mean. As in, if it's being caused by something internally within the gun, then something ain't right in there, and adding more stress to the pistol in general may thus be a recipe for a more catastrophic failure. But if it's the gun itself causing the issue then I'll be damned if I know what could be causing it. Like I'd mentioned, no one working at the range I go to had ever seen anything like it (this is a busy range here in Wichita, btw), and they examined the gun...one of the gentleman owning a couple himself, and all were utterly perplexed as nothing seemed to be out of place/unusual. Granted, none of these individuals were actual gunsmiths.

To put my mind at ease I think I just need to take it to the gunstore I actually purchased the firearm from, and have their gunsmith look at it. Also still waiting to hear back from Sig customer service. They did say that due to Covid, email communication may be delayed, and recommended customers call them instead, it's just, work has been nonstop and long hours of late. Heck, I'm planning on pulling an all-nighter tonight to get paperwork done, and haven't found a window in my day during their customer service operating hours to make a call.

Regarding 147 grain ammo, I may well indeed give it a whirl if I come across a half decent deal (tough these days) on some. Almost pulled the trigger (no pun intended, lol) the other night on some Federal 147 grain HST, but, by the time I checked the site again it was sold out. A real shocker, I know.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
I still think it was done in the manufacturing process, perhaps some clamping mechanism during forming.

The marks on your magazines are on either the left or right, not consistently on one side.

If you look at the flush fit magazine, you can see the beginnings of the same mark on the right side. Not extreme yet, but, second trip to the range I didn't fire nearly as many rounds through the gun as I did first trip, and I swear it wasn't there after my first trip to the range with the pistol. The giant bloody "C" on the left side of that mag? Yeah, that stuck out like a sore thumb, as did the reverse "C" on the extended pinky mag. In attempting to figure out what could have caused it I definitely spent some time looking at and handling the things.

If it was caused during the manufacturing process, then it certainly wasn't apparent when I purchased the firearm. It was new. The included factory mags were new. And prior to my first trip to the range with the pistol the marks/gouges were most definitely, 100% not there. Anyway, fingers crossed it's the mags and not the gun. Because thus far there've been no failures, and I can live with messed up looking mags as long as they work. And, I plan on acquiring more mags for the pistol anyway, or at least a 12 rounder or 2. And, well, better the magazines than the pistol itself for so many reasons, not the least of which is that sending the pistol off to Sig is going to be way more of a pain than just living with the gouges, or buying new magazines.

Let us know what you find out.

But I have to tell you that neither of the two 12 rd magazines I bought were ever in a P365 before I bought them new and separately (they didn't come with my pistol of course) and one of them has two "C" marks opposite each other. I bet the mags you have actually had the marks when you got the pistol and that you didn't notice them. I don't see the marks getting more pronounced with usage, either.

I'd be very surprised if these marks are anything but a small cosmetic flaw.

quote:

Originally posted by ckochenower:
..it's definitely making a depression into the metal itself. It's not just finish wear on the mag.

Depending on the light, the depression is significant. Any way to see if it looks like a dent or an abrasion?

Like the others, I have 5 P365 mags and none of mine have that mark on them

None of the magazines for the four 365s we have in our family have them... that includes the 10rd version as well as 12 and 15 round examples.

Out of curiosity what ammo are you using?

Please let us know what SIG has to say...

Thanks

Chuck

Timely. I was watching the "Honest Outlaw" Youtube review of the P365 last night while dinner was cooking. He mentioned magazine wear marks on the back of the magazine and seemed to think they were indicators of future problems.

Not sure if they're the same as yours. I checked my three mags today and didn't see anything suspicious. Not surprising, as I doubt I have 300 rounds through the gun.

Well, you guys are starting me thinking.
Perhaps I should call customer service this week and talk to them, maybe send them a couple of cell phone pics.

At $49.00 each plus shipping, these magazines should be perfect. More to follow.

OP, welcome to the forum!

I've got a pile of 365 and 365XL magazines and some of them have those same "flaws" in the back of the magazines.

It's not a wear issue, it is during the manufacturing.

It doesn't effect function. Just shoot them and enjoy.

To all of those who still think these marks were there from the get-go, no, just no. I'm very picky about my stuff. Got it from my mom. Still have memories of going through malls to Hallmark stores on Precious Moment hunts. She'd have the workers bring out multiple boxes of the same dang figurine to find the one that was just right. Also, I was already carrying this pistol prior to going to the range (yeah,I know, carrying an unproven weapon isn't the smartest thing, but it's the smallest pistol I own and it was going to take a while for my kydex holster to show up (JX Tactical, btw, finally sent me an email today saying my "fat man" holster is done and is being shipped, thank you Jesus! I placed my order June 19), so I got a Desantis Nemesis, shipped from Amazon in like 2 days. For those quick trips out and about. So, it's not like I didn't handle the magazines before my first range trip with it.

Anyway, found a window in my morning the other day to finally give Sig a call. Despite the automated message warning of a potentially extended wait time, I was connected to a William almost immediately. I explained the situation, and he asked me to send him some pictures. I also admitted I'd been using a Maglula and he immediately asked if I thought that might be the cause. I was honest, it had crossed my mind. And I don't blame him for immediately not wanting to blame the gun, he is the "face" of the company to much of the public, afterall. Fast forward about an hour and he emails me back, saying that from the pictures alone he couldn't pinpoint the exact cause, and gave me 2 options. 1) He'd send out a new magazine and with this one I would perform an "experiment" as he put it. Basically, shoot that magazine without using the Maglula and see if the marks show up. If they still do, then it's the gun. I'd thought about doing this myself, but didn't want to buy and ruin another. Or, 2) send my pistol in to be looked at by one of their gunsmiths.

Needless to say, I went with option 1. So, thanks Sig customer service, I've now got a new mag being shipped out. It's going to be a rough day on the thumbs at the range, though, lol. I bought the Maglula because, quite frankly, after 4 or 5 rounds I found it damn near impossible to get additional rounds in the magazines. I've never owned a really compact pistol before, full size mags may be a bit of a struggle once you hit the last few rounds, but I found the loading of the P365 magazines to be nothing but pain. Anyway, despite doubts on the forum, really hoping it's the Maglula, and not the pistol itself. Still doesn't say much about the steel in the Sig mags, but, I'm fine with it as long as they work. And thus far they have, with no issues. If it is the Maglula gonna have to hunt down a good alternative. Unless the magazine springs loosen up. Which reminds me, haven't actually tried manually loading them since I got the Maglula. Gonna have to check that out.

quote:

Originally posted by cxm:
None of the magazines for the four 365s we have in our family have them... that includes the 10rd version as well as 12 and 15 round examples.

Out of curiosity what ammo are you using?

Please let us know what SIG has to say...

Thanks

Chuck

I had a bunch of bulk 124 FMJ and 124 gr JHP Defense Ammo from a reputable local ammo company that had been sitting around from a gun show I attended a while back (pre-Covid). All functioned flawlessly, through both the P365 and my H&K VP9 which I brought along both times.

I already posted, but, Sig still kinda thinks it might be the Maglula. That being said, they are sending me out a new magazine to use without the Maglula to see if the marks show up after that. The rep, William, also gave me the option of just sending the gun in to be looked at, but, if it isn't the gun, I'd rather not go through that process. So, got another mag on the way, free. I'll conduct the "experiment" and report back.

Respectfully, OP, there's not enough force in the maglula or the gun to dimple the magazines in that spot. Literally, there is no way for the maglula to be the culprit.

If it were the maglula, one would expect the "wear" to be more vertical and not semi-circle. Additionally, the steel of the magazine is much harder than the maglula.

In regard to the gun itself, there is no metallic surface that touches the magazine at that point. All polymer.

If you don't buy that, pull your FCU out of the grip module and put your magazine in. Nothing metallic touches that portion of the magazine.

The texture of the steel is smooth where those marks are, unlike the surrounding metal, and the finish is not worn where these marks are.

I looked through the mags I had at hand and these are the ones that have similar marks. I'm sure my other mags have some too but I'm not digging in the range bag or mag storage right now.

A couple of those are brand new, never loaded, fired, nor stuck in a gun:



If I were forced to guess, these marks are made by a jig or, if they bend the upper portion of the mag, these may be a result of that process.

Sig is throwing a magazine at you to keep you happy, which is good.

Regardless, hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by sjames:
Respectfully, OP, there's not enough force in the maglula or the gun to dimple the magazines in that spot. Literally, there is no way for the maglula to be the culprit.

If it were the maglula, one would expect the "wear" to be more vertical and not semi-circle. Additionally, the steel of the magazine is much harder than the maglula.

In regard to the gun itself, there is no metallic surface that touches the magazine at that point. All polymer.

If you don't buy that, pull your FCU out of the grip module and put your magazine in. Nothing metallic touches that portion of the magazine.

The texture of the steel is smooth where those marks are, unlike the surrounding metal, and the finish is not worn where these marks are.

I looked through the mags I had at hand and these are the ones that have similar marks. I'm sure my other mags have some too but I'm not digging in the range bag or mag storage right now.

A couple of those are brand new, never loaded, fired, nor stuck in a gun:



If I were forced to guess, these marks are made by a jig or, if they bend the upper portion of the mag, these may be a result of that process.

Sig is throwing a magazine at you to keep you happy, which is good.

Regardless, hope this helps.

Dang, yeah, those marks do look just like mine. And I get what you're saying about the Maglula. Plastic vs steel. I guess I was just thinking that due to the taper of the mag(or the shortness of the mags), it does move around a bit more in there than other mags I've used with it during the loading process (though I did only just buy it right after the P365, because after bringing it home and loading a magazine, my thumbs were wrecked, so went back next-day and picked up the Maglula), so admittedly my experience with the Maglula is limited. And the marks were roughly the same width as those rails that run up the backside of the Maglula. And, the height of the marks was roughly the same as the length of travel in the Maglula once it hit's resistance in there, so thought maybe the perfect storm of cheap metal, that top edge of the rail in the reloader, and the extra play versues the other mags I've tried in there, may have caused this. Anyway, that was my logic regarding the Maglula being a potential cause. Because I still feel like if these marks had been there at the start, I would have noticed. Or, I suppose I should say now, I'm only pretty sure, because though I can't conceive of NOT noticing something like that, and only noticed them after my first range visit, I'm beginning to question my own sanity in that manner after reading some of these responses, lol. I took a few pics of the gun after I bought it just to send to a friend or two, like "hey, check out my new toy", but no pics of the mags pre first range visit.

So, I will concede that the possibility is certainly there that this is a manufacturing defect in the magazines themselves. But if it was, then either I'm blind, or it wasn't readily obvious when I purchased them, and has only revealed itself since, through actual usage. At least Sig is sending me a new mag. If it arrives and appears defect-free, then I will forego using the Maglula with it, and put a bunch of rounds through the gun with it. If still no wear, I'll put more rounds through it with the Maglula, and see what happens. The Sig mags in the stores I've looked at since, have all had normal looking backsides, as far as I could tell through the packaging.

I definitely agree that there is nothing in the gun itself which should/could cause this kind of wear/damage. But, being a new firearm, and a firearm I intend on being my primary go-to concealed carry weapon, I'm just trying to put my mind at ease. Figure out what the problem is, if there even is a problem. If it is just the mags, then what the heck, SIG? Thanks for sending me a new one, but come on.

I agree with those that say these marks are from the forming process when manufacturing the magazines. The magazines are formed, then welded on the back and then the back of the mag is ground to smooth down the welds.

Well, received my free mag from Sig today. A ten rounder with pinky extension, Made in Italy. Didn't even know some Sig factory mags were made there, lol. No blemishes or marks on backside, the finish on the rest of the mag is "shinier" than my Made in USA ones, which came with the gun. Those have more of a matte finish. Anyway, hopefully I'll get a chance to hit the range this weekend to try the "experiment", but, it's shaping up to be a busy weekend already, so may or may not get the chance. I'll report back my findings, though, when I do.

Anyone got some legitimate tips on how to load new P365 mags without a magloader? Italian manufacturing may differ, but the springs do not. Had to have a beer and a smoke to work up going from round 5 to 6. And it's not just a strength issue. I was just loading it up with plinking ammo to hopefully wear the spring in a little, and it's scraping the bejesus out of the brass casings. I use my left forefinger as much as possible on the backside to push the rounds down, and finish it off with right thumb, but, the pressure required is case damaging. That's why I bought the Maglula in the first place.

You're saying that pressing cartridges into your magazine with your fingers is damaging the cartridge cases? I find that hard to believe.

Load your magazines. Let them sit for a week or so. Then run a few mags through them. You can do it by hand or you can shoot it.

Despite claims by some to the contrary, your mag will get easier to load if you've let it sit fully loaded, for a week. Then exercising the springs a few times by loading it up and removing the cartridges, will take care of it.

Use your maglula, if you like. It's not going to harm anything. P365 mags are notoriously stiff initially. It's a function of cramming that many rounds in such a small space against the spring pressure necessary to make the pistol function.

If you're "damaging" cases by loading the magazine, something is very wrong, either with the magazine, or with your technique. If you're seeing this with more than one magazine, odds are that the problem is not the magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
You're saying that pressing cartridges into your magazine with your fingers is damaging the cartridge cases? I find that hard to believe.

Load your magazines. Let them sit for a week or so. Then run a few mags through them. You can do it by hand or you can shoot it.

Despite claims by some to the contrary, your mag will get easier to load if you've let it sit fully loaded, for a week. Then exercising the springs a few times by loading it up and removing the cartridges, will take care of it.

Use your maglula, if you like. It's not going to harm anything. P365 mags are notoriously stiff initially. It's a function of cramming that many rounds in such a small space against the spring pressure necessary to make the pistol function.

If you're "damaging" cases by loading the magazine, something is very wrong, either with the magazine, or with your technique. If you're seeing this with more than one magazine, odds are that the problem is not the magazine.

He's right.

OP, use that Maglula. I like to get 3 rounds loaded and use the loader to push the round stack down a number of times to wear the follower out where it will sometimes hang on the mag catch cutout.

Hope you get these mags lined out and can get to shooting!

quote:

...Made in Italy. Didn't even know some Sig factory mags were made there, lol.

Just so you know, there was a time when a pretty big chunk of them were made there.

As an example, currently pretty much ALL factory P220 8 round 45ACP magazines are made by Mec-Gar in Italy.




I also have a lot of factory P226 and P229 Italian made Mec-Gar magazines.

Just to note, I have 5 P365 12 round magazines, 2 of them have a very faint mark like the ones you have, and they've NEVER been loaded at all. I agree with the folks in this thread that have surmised it's a byproduct of the manufacturing process...

I wonder if you're loading them correctly. I've never seen a case/cartridge damaged just from pushing it into a magazine. Never.