As the song goes, Meet the new boss - same as the old boss. I thought I might be happy to see something new, that is, good new not stupid new. There were plenty of high quality, well engineered rifles, pistols, and revolvers. A bona fide candy store by any standard of smaller shops. BUT, as good as it was, I was a little disappointed, because all this new stuff looked just like the old stuff. Apparently not much has changed that I'm aware of in the last few years.

My guess is that current technology in internal and external ballistics, polymer, aluminum, and steel alloy science, CNC machining, and the like, maybe that's as good as it gets, and I should just continue admiring my older guns.

I could also imagine current market demand for younger shooters is sufficient that it doesn't matter to those customers that the new stuff is the same as the old stuff, and maybe that's what is holding back the gun companies from coming up with something newer or better in some tangible or stylistic way.

Are the gun manufacturers making enough money with new shooters that they don't care about the established older shooters that already have their old "new" stuff, so they are just making more "new" old stuff as usual ?

Or am I just getting long in the tooth ? What say you ?

Gotta come out with lots of new models to make people buy more guns. But proven designs that are cheaper to make will make you the most money. Unfortunately that results in a lot of samey-same.

I spend most of my gun store time browsing the "used" section. It's not that I dislike the new stuff...it definitely has its purpose, and it's what I carry for work and self defense, but one only needs so many plastic guns to thoroughly fill that role. And you're right, most of them are fundamentally the same. The few groundbreaking new designs (like the Laugo Alien) are not going to show up on the shelves of my LGS, and even if they did, the price is so ridiculous as to make their presence meaningless to a guy at my income level.

When I'm looking for stuff that I just enjoy owning and playing around with, it seems like most of the stuff I'm attracted to isn't made anymore. But a lot of that I enjoy owning just for the history, mechanical craftsmanship, and seeing the origins of the designs that influenced what's being made today. There are still a few of those older platforms, though, that are just better in certain roles than the newfangled plastic stuff is able to be.

Even the AR15 is based on a operating concept from a turn of the century rifle. And the new service rifle isn't so new, just upped the working pressure to 80K plus and a multipiece case which is being commercialized.

What we have today are high tech processes bringing the costs of leading edge applications down to commodity pricing - Steiners were great in the day, Nikons for $200 will do the same. The last "improvement" to bolt actions was Savage using a barrel nut, not pressing it into a trunnion - which Stoner added to the M16 design and which is actually the most important innovation.

Of recent note the FCU is the latest hotness in handguns and the industry slowly seeing it's losing them money not moving to it will eventually resort to other makes adopting it. There are significant cost efficiencies they can't ignore - all the panics have kept them afloat but eventually its going to happen.

I fully expect a scope which can fire the rifle to become available, DOD has openly publicized testing all but that feature - which means they are likely using them in the field. DEVGRU does that a lot, they tried the SCAR and it was a nice gun but not worth the retraining nor did it make bullets more deadly. Optics can do that if they are both visible accumulating and infra red, and when the target is centered in the cross hairs with all calculations of bullet drop, can fire in microseconds rather than a trained operators delay in decision making. Adding IFF certainly can reduce friendly fire casualties, too. That's why the little infra red patches now used for night vision devices - the glints are "don't shoot me" ID.

Imagine antelope hunting, you stalked to within 425 meters, have what you think is a good shot, the scope sets the bullet drop compensation, your wind meter and some interpretation by the optic set the windage, you pull the trigger and - and - and then the cross hairs flash green while the gun goes off. A better hit with less flyers or lost game.

I see some conservation departments dragging their heels on that. I would absolutely expect it in combat - scan the line of opposing fighting positions and the gun fires with the correct solution as you traverse from one side to another.

Now put that on a drone with AI and have it tag your deer and tell you on your GPS how to get there? With Grizzly Bear Alert.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
Or am I just getting long in the tooth ?

Yep.

Shoot more, look at new guns less. Firearms development is more often an incremental evolution than a sudden revolution.

Often when I read a complaint about almost anything not being any good, my first question is how would you improve things? What about guns would you like to be new and different, keeping in mind that when someone invents a laser with firearms level power that would be capable of causing as much damage to the target as a conventional bullet, it will be immediately outlawed for civilian possession and use?

More bling or useless features like dirt-collecting windows in the slides? When a company like SIG does that, it’s immediately met with a storm of ridicule from people who aren’t affected by such guns and policies in the slightest, but still feel compelled to render an opinion about them and try to convince the rest of us that we shouldn’t buy them.

A new cartridge? More ridicule and “It fills no need that’s not already being met. A solution in search of a problem.”

A gun that is a modern version of a classic? “The magazine capacity is too small; why didn’t they change the frame to accommodate a larger mag?” “I wouldn’t carry or buy it anyway, but why doesn’t it have a steel [or “alloy”] frame because it’s too light [or heavy].” “They introduced it too late; I would have bought it last week, but not now.” “If it doesn’t say ‘Browning’ on it, it’s not a real P35.”

An upgrade to a previously-introduced model? “Waaah! Why didn’t they do that before I bought mine‽”

Or something that really is new and improved? “Dam’! Something else to spend my money on,” or, “You won’t catch me being a beta tester for any new gun.”

I personally am glad that we have a healthy firearms industry in this country and it’s possible for most of those who want to can enjoy its offerings.

I don't necessarily think it is AGE per say, as much as experience. I am not particularly old but I have been blessed to have a wide range of shooting/firearms experience.

I've spent my fair share of time chasing the new hotness, or the TINY carry gun or this or that. Over that time I have pretty much realized that I can run damn near anything fairly well and they all do pretty much the same thing with incremental differences in capabilities etc.

Now I like anything with a bang switch and agree that optics are the way forward but the reality is I don't think one is radically disadvantaged with an early 1900s revolver vs. a modern dotted pistol assuming you have the "software" to run the hardware. That advantage gets smaller and smaller the more modern you get.

I have been toying going back to Glock and running an optic but I keep asking myself what advantage am I buying over my DA/SA's with the manual of arms I am super comfortable with and prefer for both a fairly significant monetary outlay, as well as the training time and cost, as well as the increased maintenance time (batteries, screws, re-zeroing after replacing something like a RMR battery etc.) Do those things give me a radical increase in capability over my night sighted, flashlighted SD guns now, especially given my risk evaluation and frankly no they don't, at least not for me not right now.

The point is the more you get involved in this game whether through time or experience you sort of realize that they all kinda do about the same thing with only incremental differences and personal preferences.

Now as far as the "toy" aspect goes, which I am all in on I am collecting the "whole set" so to speak.

Take care, shoot safe,
Chris

Just curious, is there something in terms of technology improvement you are looking for?

Is there something about the old stuff you don't like and are hoping to see improved?

"Never trust a woman or an automatic pistol"
John Dillinger.
I am a big fan of classic pistols and revolvers. When it comes to "new stuff" there is one thing the newer designs have done:
Improved reliability.
Glock, Sig and others now have models that work reliably right out of the box and continue to do so for years. That was not always the case. I had Colt 1911s in the 1980s that were completely unreliable.
Can we return to the good old days? We could, but only at great expense. And only after the major manufacturers train a new generation of hand fitter types.
Looks like the future (optics and plastic) is here to stay!

quote:

Originally posted by magholderusa:
Just curious, is there something in terms of technology improvement you are looking for?

Is there something about the old stuff you don't like and are hoping to see improved?

Phase 3 Plasma ray with transporter module in a compact pocket flip unit....

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I spend most of my gun store time browsing the "used" section.

Same here, and for the same reasons you posted. I haven't seen anything appreciably new or interesting in some time. Some of the more recent Glock models have caught my interest, and I've bought a G48 and two G45's, they're essentially just variations on a theme. Now everyone else makes a Glock and that's also just variations on a theme to me.

My most recent purchase was a Walther PDP with a 4.5" barrel. Although I have shot other Walthers (PPQ and P22), this pistol is a real gem. Trigger is light, the pistol fits my hand, and the accuracy is there. This is the type of innovation that really gets me going. Yup! It's plastic (polymer) and it's not my first one, but dang, I'll put that right up there with my M17.....

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I spend most of my gun store time browsing the "used" section. It's not that I dislike the new stuff...it definitely has its purpose, and it's what I carry for work and self defense, but one only needs so many plastic guns to thoroughly fill that role. And you're right, most of them are fundamentally the same. The few groundbreaking new designs (like the Laugo Alien) are not going to show up on the shelves of my LGS, and even if they did, the price is so ridiculous as to make their presence meaningless to a guy at my income level.

When I'm looking for stuff that I just enjoy owning and playing around with, it seems like most of the stuff I'm attracted to isn't made anymore. But a lot of that I enjoy owning just for the history, mechanical craftsmanship, and seeing the origins of the designs that influenced what's being made today. There are still a few of those older platforms, though, that are just better in certain roles than the newfangled plastic stuff is able to be.

Same here. The shop I frequent the most has older classic stuff that I am attracted to. I have plastic guns but not to the extent I have the classics. This shop has a crap load of modern plastic fantastic and they sell a bunch of them. I guess that's what pays the bills.