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The Marine Corps is pushing a faster pistol qualification course with these changes

By: Shawn Snow   1 day ago

The Corps is pushing a new sustainment pistol course that will speed up the annual qualification and shorten the amount of time Marines spend at the range.

The new sustainment course of fire for the Combat Pistol Program will have fewer training blocks and require 100 rounds of ammunition less than the normal course of fire for the annual program, according to an administrative message published Monday.

Prior to the announcement of the new sustainment pistol qualification course, Marines had five blocks during their annual qualification and 200 rounds of ammunition per Marine. The new sustainment course shortens the qualification process to three training blocks and 100 rounds per Marine.

Marines qualifying on the pistol annually usually go through several training blocks that consists of dry fire and refresher training, with blocks four and five consisting of a pre-evaluation shoot and then the actual qualification.

The new three block sustainment course ties all the refresher training into one block, with a pre-evaluation shoot and then a qualification round.

But the new sustainment course isn’t going to help everyone: It’s primarily aimed at those Marines who qualified expert or sharpshooter during the five block course of fire. And the original five block pistol qualification course is not going anywhere either.

Marines who shoot the accelerated sustainment course of fire but only achieve marksman, the lowest qualification rating, will be required to attend the full five block qualification course of fire the following year.

“This program has proven to retain or improve upon a Marines performance while dramatically minimizing time on the range, targetry, and ammunition,” the MARADMIN reads.

Marine Corps Combat Development Command had actually approved the new sustainment pistol course in a 2016 MARADMIN, which noted that further details would be made available in a future message covering implementation.

The Corps is currently also in the process of seeking new technology that could create an automatic scoring rifle range, which could dramatically impact time at the range and limit the number of Marines needed to run the course of fire.

The new tech could see electronic scoring, automated targets and pits, and electronic displays that track a shooter’s score and shot placement.

WTF. Range time is the best time. Nobody wants to speed it up

Twas ever thus. The USAF was kind enough to allow me to carry a GAU-5 and an S&W Model 15, but had no interest in letting me actually shoot them.
So... I cheated. When off duty, I went to the firing range and volunteered for scut work. Sweep the place, sort brass, lug ammo, etc. Soon range staff adopted me and I got to shoot several times a week.
There are always other ways to skin a military cat!

In my day 1964 the late Summer early Fall at Parris Island there was intensive pressure to qualify from the training platoon Drill Instructors. I remember qualification day. there were a number of recruits that went non-qualification. One of those recruits dropped his rifle on the ground and simply departed. He managed to hide out for several days before hunger got the best of him and he returned to the platoon. Some how his disappearance apparently was covered up by our training platoon drill instructors Sgt Glutts, Sgt Androlowicz and Cpl Corns. We also had three individuals that departed at night using Sgt Androlowicz station wagon. Parris Island was not for the faint of heart.

The Marine Corps has many ways of making annual marksmanship training the opposite of fun. For much of my career I’ve had the luxury of getting in on streamlined unit-run ranges for experienced shooters, where I skipped all the skull-dragging classroom time, regimented snap-in and whistle drills, and pre-qual; not to mention the many hours of standing around in the rain, waiting for someone or something to show up, or listening to someone get his ass chewed. Instead I just show up, shoot my expert score, and leave to get on with my day. This sustainment program simply institutionalizes that opportunity for all pistol shooters to skip some of the formal training BS if they don’t need it. Of course its primary purpose is to conserve ammo (i.e., money).

Most pistol experts I know in the Marines shoot, as I do, more with their own guns than they do with any government M9. It would be a huge waste of my time and your tax dollars for me to fire 200 rounds a year to get to an expert score that I could have simply shot on the first relay and gone back to my office.

When my son entered the Corps, he was shocked at the lack of capability, lack of muzzle discipline, and poor handling that he saw.

No iron sights, those on the range constantly covering each other with muzzles, poor scores...not at all the myth and tradition of every man a rifleman.

200 rounds a year is pathetically inadequate; reducing to 100 is far less.

This is a money saving move; nothing more, nothing less. My agency did it years ago when we switched from a 60 round course of fire to a 30 for quals. Some toad probably got a cash award for cutting the agency’s ammo cost in half (as if it really worked that way but looks good on paper).

more 'ammo' to support the contention that regular LE / mil training will not make an 'expert' shooter (of course the 'high speed' units are in a different category - their training cycles / range access are in a different league)

'Train' you ? Yes

but to become an expert requires personal dedication to improvement on one's 'off time' (as mentioned above)

maybe - if you're lucky - you'll get to a unit with a handful of really sharp NCOs who have become SMEs and are good instructors who go the extra mile

in the Army's defense - there are SO MANY other things that have to be taught that it is a never-ending competition for time / resources

patrolling
land nav
first aid
NBC
vehicle / equip maintenance
fitness
commo
etc, etc

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I was thinking the same thing.... if you want to qualify but especially make expert then you aren't going to do it showing up once a year and sitting through 3 or even 5 classrooms and then shooting 100 or even 200 rounds of ammo.... practice before hand.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
When my son entered the Corps, he was shocked at the lack of capability, lack of muzzle discipline, and poor handling that he saw.

No iron sights, those on the range constantly covering each other with muzzles, poor scores...not at all the myth and tradition of every man a rifleman.

200 rounds a year is pathetically inadequate; reducing to 100 is far less.

Invite 300 strangers who’ve never shot a firearm before to join you on the range and see how you do at keeping them from flagging each other. It sounds like your son was describing entry level training. If he is in a fleet unit and still has such an impression of the weapons handling then I would venture to guess he’s in the air wing. In any case, since he has it all figured out, he has come to the perfect place to share his knowledge and make the Marines around him better.

The 200 round discussion above pertained to pistols. Most Marines come and go from the Marine Corps without ever needing to qualify with a pistol. Those who do need one mostly need it to stand duty. We are talking about annual qualification. There is additional training available for MPs, security forces, military advisors, etc.; i.e., people who need it.

As for iron sights, that ship has sailed. We had that debate about 15 years ago and it was settled by the fact that the troops just plain shot better with optics. Both the recruit depots and the battlefield in Iraq served as laboratories and the evidence mounted until iron sights were dropped from entry level training in about 2013. By that time units in Iraq had already used optics on the service rifle for about 6 or 7 years. Nearly every developed country in the world has put some sort of optic on its army’s service rifle. I do miss the old days of blacking my sights, reading wind flags, and making windage changes; but I would not want to go back to that in combat unless my optic were destroyed.

quote:

Originally posted by lowflash:
In my day 1964 the late Summer early Fall at Parris Island there was intensive pressure to qualify from the training platoon Drill Instructors.

Kind of reminds me of a story my father told me. He volunteered for the Marines in the late 60s. He's never claimed to be a good shot and related how his DI slipped him a couple extra rounds on the sly to qualify.

quote:

Originally posted by lowflash:
In my day 1964 the late Summer early Fall at Parris Island....

Pardon my drift, but what battalion? I was there then, we may have fed some of the same noseeums. I was in 2nd Battalion.

My fathers D.I. in '47 did the opposite... got pissed at him for claiming his rifle was defective until my father went to the C.O. and the C.O could not hit anything with it and so the D.I. at the range handed him a different M1 and 3 rounds and said "sight it in boy."

Side note... my father shot a perfect score that day. three years later after landing at Inchon they took his BAR away and issued him an '03 Springfield with a scope.... the man could shoot... I saw him put the eye of a rattle snake out with a 38 at about 30ft.