I have to admit, I like it in the Gen5. I just built another pistol yesterday. This one has the Apex Gen5 trigger kit in it, a set of HD XRs, and a Glockmeister grip plug.

I have to say that I can get better leverage on the trigger with the flatty. I've tried them on previous generations, and M&Ps and never been able to tell much difference. But, I can here.

I'm glad I have ADD to jump back and forth reading your M&P thread then the G 17 gen 5 stuff.

I feel right at home with your shooting topics!

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Nframe:
I'm glad I have ADD to jump back and forth reading your M&P thread then the G 17 gen 5 stuff.

I feel right at home with your shooting topics!

Chris

I am so glad. I'm glad I don't suffer alone.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by Nframe:
I'm glad I have ADD to jump back and forth reading your M&P thread then the G 17 gen 5 stuff.

I feel right at home with your shooting topics!

Chris

I am so glad. I'm glad I don't suffer alone.

Suffer??!! I thrive on it!

I almost bought a new Gen5 17 today, but it was before I saw your thread. Now I want to go back...

I didn't quite get it until I put a Salient flat trigger in my Gen 2. Now I have Salient flat triggers in all my Glocks (and the Salient BLU).

OP,

Nice looking Gen5

I’m not sure if I’m seeing it correctly but

is the locking block pin walking out ?

Thanks,

Tony

I'm a huge proponent of flat faced triggers. I have them on all of the guns I use frequently (all glocks) and two of them on a couple of AR lowers that are used for long-range precision shooting.

I started with the Apex on my carry G26. Then got into the Glockcraft/Overwatch triggers. I tried a couple other brands but Overwatch is my go-to...I have 7 guns with them now.

Tried one for some time on my G19.3 and G19.4 and could not attribute any specific benefit to a flat face itself. Might give it another try but my first round of testing was reasonably OCD.

I was skeptical too...installed the OEM flat trigger from Sig on my P320...wow I love it.

The more I shoot steel matches with the Apex flat-face trigger on my M&P 9 Pro CORE, the more I'm warming up to it. Initially, I just didn't get it. The gun (used) came with it already installed.
But now...it's taking hold of me.

Hey gimmie my magazine back!

(all my training mags have orange bottoms).

For those of us who don't know, why is the flat faced trigger better on the Gen5 versus previous generations and M&Ps?

Main selling point of those is that they promote a more straight back trigger pull, alleviating some of lateral / low lateral shot placement. Most reduce trigger reach, and some reduce pre and over travel. As I said, I personally havent found much benefit. I have a polished IGFS trigger and it also slightly reduced pull weight, likely because of heavy polishing, and maybe some leverage. It shoots fine, but if I bump up pull weight, those low left tendencies are no different than with a stock trigger for me.

@jljones
I have one installed in an Olympic air pistol with a 18oz trigger with a 2/3 : 1/3 weight ratio. The first 12oz of the first stage feels harder, but the remaining 6oz become better to control. Group size become more consistent with the negative effect that fliers become much worse. What’s been a 7 with the curved trigger becomes a 4 with the flat trigger. The difference between a 7 and a 4 is about 1in at 10m (11yd).
What is your experience with flyers with the flat trigger in your Glock. Does is require more discipline or is it as forgiving as a curve trigger? Do flyers become worse?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:
For those of us who don't know, why is the flat faced trigger better on the Gen5 versus previous generations and M&Ps?

Big thing for me is leverage, I get a harder prep and a cleaner pull when things are maybe a bit dicked up. You know how I feel about trigger finger placement, and it is all about leverage.

As to why, I think it is the lack of finger grooves. I'm an idiot on this I will admit. So many people were chopping the finger grooves in the aftermarket on the older guns, and I didn't get it. I get a much higher grip on the Gen5, and that translates to my trigger finger is at a little different angle.

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
@jljones
I have one installed in an Olympic air pistol with a 18oz trigger with a 2/3 : 1/3 weight ratio. The first 12oz of the first stage feels harder, but the remaining 6oz become better to control. Group size become more consistent with the negative effect that fliers become much worse. What’s been a 7 with the curved trigger becomes a 4 with the flat trigger. The difference between a 7 and a 4 is about 1in at 10m (11yd).
What is your experience with flyers with the flat trigger in your Glock. Does is require more discipline or is it as forgiving as a curve trigger? Do flyers become worse?

It's hard to say as we are talking two different styles of shooting. In how I shoot to meet my needs of speed and accuracy, I directly link what I see to my trigger control. When the three conditions are obtained, the trigger is fair game, and my conscious job is to run the sights to a specific point on a target. The subconscious job is for the gun to go bang as soon as the sights come to a stop. The more time I spend trying to clean up the sights, the more time and inclination I may have to snatch at the trigger because things look "perfect". Generally, in this style of shooting, "flyers" come from not driving the sights specific, not having "perfect" sight alignment because it is not necessary as long as you are focusing on the front sight, the gun going off early due to an over-prep, and lastly, the devil, a pre-ignition push to where just at the point of ignition I break the wrist as a conscious effort to "fight", "control", "mitigate" recoil. This causes a low left hit for right handed shooters, and a low right hit for left handed shooters.

My job is to have the trigger prepped in between shots and being waiting on the sights to return to the spot that I am shooting at. At least that is how the brain perceives it. In all actuality on slo-mo video, the sights are back long before the trigger is prepped. The big difference I see with the flat trigger on the Gen5 is that I get a more consistent prep shot to shot. So, let's say that with the regular trigger, shot to shot, I am able to leverage 75 percent of the pull when I prep it each time. That only leaves 25 percent to pull through when the sights stop. On occasion, I can get 85 percent with the standard trigger. Now comes the flatty. And with the flatty, I can get 90 percent of the pull (or travel) each time with a fair amount of certainy. And that is where I am. I get a higher degree of prep on the trigger on a more consistent basis.

When I need to slow fire for accuracy, I just shoot a bunch of bump drills. Which is a testament to how good of a drill the bump drill is.

slack, sight, press

In my training from Houston Shaw, this mantra is what revolutionized my shooting skills.

Consistent placement on the trigger with this "mantra" in your head and accuracy becomes a mind blowing experience.
I tried the flatty, but arthritis in my trigger finger, first joint, (bends down) didn't work for me.
Same reason a Glock grip angle tears me up.
However, P-220 SAO and all my Sigs with curved triggers still have me wanting to shoot more, even after 40 years.

I really like the flatty as an alternative for shooters to up their game and for some, to put two to the chest and one to the head with little effort.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmoid:
slack, sight, press

In my training from Houston Shaw, this mantra is what revolutionized my shooting skills.

Consistent placement on the trigger with this "mantra" in your head and accuracy becomes a mind blowing experience.
I tried the flatty, but arthritis in my trigger finger, first joint, (bends down) didn't work for me.
Same reason a Glock grip angle tears me up.
However, P-220 SAO and all my Sigs with curved triggers still have me wanting to shoot more, even after 40 years.

I really like the flatty as an alternative for shooters to up their game and for some, to put two to the chest and one to the head with little effort.

Sigmoid, with all due respect, you might want to reconsider your training slightly. When the proverbial crap hits the fan and your fine motor skills go out the window your slack, sight, press might turn into slack, BOOM!. Think sight, slack, press...

Same here. All my ARs have flat triggers as well as all my glocks. I use IGS Enhanced Duty triggers in all my glocks (5). They are the BEST feeling I have found.

quote:

Originally posted by agony:
I'm a huge proponent of flat faced triggers. I have them on all of the guns I use frequently (all glocks) and two of them on a couple of AR lowers that are used for long-range precision shooting.

I started with the Apex on my carry G26. Then got into the Glockcraft/Overwatch triggers. I tried a couple other brands but Overwatch is my go-to...I have 7 guns with them now.