So I'm new to the P320 platform and trying to figure out what I need holster wise but its kind of confusing because of the different variations of the 320 line...

I've noticed that a lot of holster makers differentiate between the standard P320 models and the P320 X models. I know the frames are different but I thought those differences were mostly in the grip area which shouldn't effect fitment with most holsters? Is there any dimensional differences between the slides? Trying to understand exactly why companies like Safariland offer different versions of their holsters for the different variations of the P320?

The reason I'm asking is what if I have hybrid... 320 XCarry slide on a standard 320 carry frame or a Standard Carry slide on an X frame? What about a Full length (4.7" barrel) slide on a carry frame? Then what are you looking at if you go with a Wilson Combat frame or AXG frame?

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by airgunner:
what if I have hybrid... 320 XCarry slide on a standard 320 carry frame

By “frame,” I assume you’re referring to the large polymer part that has the accessory rail, trigger guard, and grip. SIG calls that the “grip module,” and the serialized “frame” or receiver of the P320 is the U-shaped metal trough that holds the parts of the fire control unit like the sear housing and trigger.

I have three P320s with standard grip modules and a 9mm XCarry, and they have three different barrel and slide assemblies: the full-size with 4.7 inch barrel, the Carry that also fits the Compact grip module with 3.9" barrel, and the XCompact with 3.6" barrel. I also have four polymer holsters (three of them Safariland) designed for the P320.

The P320 XCarry fits into all holsters in the same way that the guns with the longer slides do, except, of course, that its shorter slide doesn’t go as far into the holsters as the longer slides do. The holsters that have locking retention devices engage the XCarry just as they do the guns with longer slides. I have not measured the widths of the guns’ slides with calipers, but based on their fit into the rigid holsters, there is no obvious difference in their widths.

Swapping slide assemblies around on the different grip modules and fire control units is possible with no apparent problems except for the mismatch between the length of the grip modules’ accessory rails and the slides. For example, putting the XCarry slide on a standard Carry or Compact grip module results in an assembly whose accessory rail extends forward of the front of the slide. I assume it would function properly, but it does look odd. On the other hand a full-size slide can be put on a Carry or Compact grip module and although it extends farther forward of the accessory rail that it does with the full-size grip module, there are no gaps and it would look normal if one weren’t familiar with the normal full-size assembly.

I have a friend who owns a full-size X model and I believe he uses the same polymer holsters for it and a full-size with standard grip module.

I can’t answer why companies like Safariland differentiate between the X and standard P320, except keeping in mind that the XCarry has a shorter slide/barrel than the standard Carry or Compact (3.6" v. 3.9"). Although I have no personal experience with other X models, I believe their barrels are the same length as the standard versions.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
By “frame,” I assume you’re referring to the large polymer part that has the accessory rail, trigger guard, and grip. SIG calls that the “grip module,” and the serialized “frame” or receiver of the P320 is the U-shaped metal trough that holds the parts of the fire control unit like the sear housing and trigger.

Yes, I need to learn to use Sig vernacular. When I stated "frame" I was referring to what Sig calls the "Grip Module"

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The P320 XCarry fits into all holsters in the same way that the guns with the longer slides do, except, of course, that its shorter slide doesn’t go as far into the holsters as the longer slides do. The holsters that have locking retention devices engage the XCarry just as they do the guns with longer slides. I have not measured the widths of the guns’ slides with calipers, but based on their fit into the rigid holsters, there is no obvious difference in their widths.

So what exactly does Safariland's ALS retention system lock onto? Knowing that would help me understand which holster I may need to buy depending on what combo of 320 parts I end up with?

What I mean by that is, most non-retention holsters index off of the trigger guard and/or dust cover/accessory rail. That's why a Glock 19 needs a different holster if you're running a P80 frame. So I wasn't sure if an "X" grip module generally needs a different holster then a standard grip module but it sounds like your saying no or at least probably not?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Swapping slide assemblies around on the different grip modules and fire control units is possible with no apparent problems except for the mismatch between the length of the grip modules’ accessory rails and the slides. For example, putting the XCarry slide on a standard Carry or Compact grip module results in an assembly whose accessory rail extends forward of the front of the slide. I assume it would function properly, but it does look odd. On the other hand a full-size slide can be put on a Carry or Compact grip module and although it extends farther forward of the accessory rail that it does with the full-size grip module, there are no gaps and it would look normal if one weren’t familiar with the normal full-size assembly.

I have a friend who owns a full-size X model and I believe he uses the same polymer holsters for it and a full-size with standard grip module.

I can’t answer why companies like Safariland differentiate between the X and standard P320, except keeping in mind that the XCarry has a shorter slide/barrel than the standard Carry or Compact (3.6" v. 3.9"). Although I have no personal experience with other X models, I believe their barrels are the same length as the standard versions.

I was aware that various slide lengths are compatible with different grips module sizes but I was not aware that the 320 XCompact slide was shorter (3.6" barrel) then the standard Compact slide (same 3.9" barrel as the Carry model). Good to know

It does however Look like the "XCarry" slide is the same length (or at least same barrel length) as the standard Carry model?

My plan is to have 2 P320's, 1 with a "Full" slide on a "Carry" grip module (I prefer the look and don't need the extra rail space of the "Full" grip module) and the second being a "Carry" slide on a "Carry" sized grip module. The "Full" slide will probably be a variant of the X slide and the "Carry" slide will be a standard 320 slide. Not sure which style of grip module I will end up using (Standard, X, WC or AXG?) but I guess when I have that all sorted out, I will try to contact the holster manufacture and see what they say?

In the mean time, I was hoping maybe there was some kind of chart or FAQ that lists holster compatibility (or known issues) between the various 320 slide and grip frame combos?

quote:

Originally posted by airgunner:
So what exactly does Safariland's ALS retention system lock onto?

The ejection port.

Holster fit for P320 ALS holsters will be driven by the length of the slide. Therefore, for what you're planning:

Full-size slide = Full-side P320 holster, regardless of which style of grip module is installed.

Carry slide = Compact/Carry P320 holster, regardless of which style of grip module is installed. (The Compact and Carry slides are the same length.) These will also work in holsters for the longer Full-sized slide, although the fit will be a bit looser.

Otherwise, Safariland ALS holsters are very loose tolerances. So specific installed grip modules won't come into play until you get into other holsters with tightly-molded tolerances, like custom Kydex or leather holsters, where one holster may be molded specifically for a standard P320 Carry with standard Carry grip module and another might be specifically molded for an X-Carry slide with an X-Carry grip module.


The only confusing P320 model is the XCompact in particular, since it actually uses a Subcompact length slide, not a Compact/Carry length slide like you'd assume from the name. But the X-Carry has a Carry-length slide.



And the "frame" thing isn't just quirky Sig vernacular. The "frame" is the serialized portion of the handgun which contains the trigger mechanism. On a traditional handgun, that's the entire lower half of the gun. But on the P320 that is just the removable internal Fire Control Unit.

The P320's polymer grip module is just a "grip", similar to swapping out the interchangeable wood/plastic grips on a 1911 or classic Sig P22X series or other handgun with removable grips, just encompassing a larger area.

The Safariland ALS locks into the P320 ejection port. The locking mechanism includes a spring-loaded plastic piece that snaps in when the pistol is holstered. It’s moved out of the port and unlocks when the small ALS thumb tab is pulled back by the user. I assume that because the ejection ports of all P320 slides are in the same place with respect to the grip and trigger, that’s why all of guns I have lock into the full-size holsters regardless of the length of their slides.

I have no personal experience with the X Carry, but according to this video, it has a 3.9 inch barrel. That’s the same as the “standard” Carry and Compact models.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp9JGW1xE50

Most of what I know about the various slides and grip modules is based on my limited experience with the guns I own. I did not, for example, realize that the XCompact had a shorter barrel than the Compact until I got the gun home and started my quest for 357/40 Compact and Carry models. I’m not aware of any comprehensive charts that explain all the P320 variations, but it would be useful if someone developed one.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
The ejection port.

Holster fit for P320 ALS holsters will be driven by the length of the slide.

That helps a lot. Thank you

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
And the "frame" thing isn't just quirky Sig vernacular. The "frame" is the serialized portion of the handgun which contains the trigger mechanism. On a traditional handgun, that's the entire lower half of the gun. But on the P320 that is just the removable internal Fire Control Unit.

The P320's polymer grip module is just a "grip", similar to swapping out the interchangeable wood/plastic grips on a 1911 or classic Sig P22X series or other handgun with removable grips, just encompassing a larger area.

I didn't use the word "quirky" but really it kind of is IMO because...

I don't know of any other company calling the frame a grip module and you can't attribute that to the fact that the "grip module" isn't the serialized part (and there for not a "frame" in the classic sense) because that is not unique to Sig. The Ruger MK and 22/45 pistols serialize the upper receiver/barrel combo and the frame is completely replaceable without any paperwork but they still call the lower part of the firearm the "grip frame" or just "frame" for short. I'm pretty sure there are other examples of that out there but they don't come to mind right now. So yes, the term "grip module" is "quirky Sig vernacular" IMO.

Either way, I don't really care but I do try to use the proper vernacular so that the people I'm communicating with understand exactly what I mean.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Holster fit for P320 ALS holsters will be driven by the length of the slide.

I’m not sure if I understand you correctly, but although a long slide obviously will not fit into a short slide holster, the opposite is not true.

As I found with my experiments, all of my P320s fit into the full-size ALS holster exactly the same way. Because they were stopped and locked in place by the ALS mechanism’s engagement of the ejection port, when the guns were holstered there was no difference in how the grips were positioned for drawing, whether it was the XCompact with its 3.6" barrel, the Carry/Compact with 3.9" barrel, or the full-size with its 4.7" barrel.

And FWIW, SIG calls many of its pistol parts by names that differ from other manufacturers’ practices. It’s locking insert rather than locking block, magazine catch rather than magazine release (the mag cannot be released if it wasn’t “caught” first), slide catch rather than slide stop, and possibly others.

Be careful with Safariland duty holsters and P320 slide lengths. When our department bought us our P320 Carrys (compact-length slide), the distributor screwed up and sent us some duty holsters for the carry and others for the full-size. Nobody caught this, and the full-size holsters got issued along with the carry-sized ones.

The guns fit, but with a little extra play. I got one of the full-sized holsters, and having not tried a carry-sized holster, I thought that was just how it was supposed to be. The gun went in and out just fine, and the retention worked, so I figured I was good.

Then my magazine started falling out of the gun. At first I thought I just hadn't seated it properly, but it kept happening. Turns out, the full-sized holster allowed the gun to sit too deep into the holster, allowing the mag release to contact part of the holster if any lateral pressure was exerted on the grip...like commonly happens when you're seated in a car, or rolling around on the ground fighting with someone. Push hard enough against the side of your grip, and out pops your mag.

We sent the wrong holsters back to the distributor and got the correct ones. Thankfully I figured it out before something really bad happened. That model of Safariland holster actually has the same exterior dimensions for both the full-size and the compact/carry model...there's just a longer plastic block under the muzzle on the ones designed for the shorter slide. It kinda defeats he purpose of the carry-length slide, since he holster still digs into the seat just as bad when you sit down. In hindsight I wish we'd just bought the full-size guns.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Be careful with Safariland duty holsters and P320 slide lengths.

Interesting. As I mentioned, the Safariland ALS holsters I have fix the position of P320 pistols by the location of the ejection port in the slide, and therefore all my 320s stop at the same place in the holsters. In checking one of mine, however, I noticed that there is a raised stud (for lack of a better word) on the inner surface of the body side of the holster. That is evidently to prevent the pistol from being pushed against the inner side of the holster far enough to depress the magazine catch and cause the problem you describe. I wonder if that was added as a result of the type of problem you experienced.

Could be. Your photo is of a slightly different holster, though...ours does not have that stud. We're using the 6365 ALS Level III, for the 320 Carry W/ Streamlight TLR-1.

You can see that the area around the mag release is relieved away from the gun somewhat. On the Full-size version of the holster, the gun sat just low enough in the holster that the mag release was not lined up with that relieved area, and could be pressed into the side of the holster with a moderate amount of lateral pressure.

Yes, I see.
When were your holsters acquired? Mine is perhaps 18 months old.

It would have been early 2017, iirc

Thanks. Something to be aware of.
I'll have to look at the holsters my agency has.