I’ve suddenly realized I’ve been doing this shooting thing for a long time. I’ve seen trends come and go and come back again. I’ve watched companies shift into high marketing gear with the rise of the internet and YouTube. I’ve seen companies all follow each other like ducks in a row or movies about the same thing all released at the same time. All that said I find myself asking, “is there really anything I couldn’t accomplish (handgun wise) with an early West German P226 or early Glock or 3rd Gen Smith or hell a good 686 or GP100?”

Honestly at least for me, probably not. Any of those or many others would suit me just fine.

I am only ‘musing about this because I’m on the toil……errr because I have some mental free time.

It just seems that over the years…….
-every handgun had to be a poly striker 9mm
-every handgun needed a rail
-every handgun needed a threaded barrel
-they all of course need optics
-gotta port every new gun under the sun now to tame that viscous 9mm recoil

You better have a ported, suppressed, thin, double stack, poly striker 9mm with a targeting computer on top or YOUR GONNA DIE!!!

I’m not saying none of this stuff isn’t a value add nor am I saying I haven’t tried, bought, and own most of it. Hell I think the rise of truly thin pistols as well as micro optics absolutely bring something to the table. How much value, however, depends on the individual I guess.

All I am saying is if I suddenly had to ditch my dotted, plastic, lighted, 9mm bedside pistol and use an 80s Beretta 92 or SIG P220 or….etc. I wouldn’t lose any sleep as those would do the VAST amount of what I would need a handgun for and I’d be totally comfortable running any of them.

I really don’t know why I was thinking about this today. Maybe I am just getting older and realizing that at it’s a core any good pistol with decent sights would do me just fine.

……now it’s off to the range to shoot my Glock 45 with the SCS and Streamlight TLR7. .

So what say you? Would you be all that upset if you lost(magically/it didn’t exist/you couldn’t afford etc. not stolen or politically lost) your 21st century blaster and had to run a basic pistola?

I've said the same thing to friends. I'd be fine with a S&W 66 bedside and maybe a J-frame/SP101 for concealed. The internet and "Big Training" has made us a bit paranoid about the real life risks.

Was just having this conversation the other night.

We all fall for the "new hotness" whether it's cell phones, electronics, motorcycles, guns, etc.
New improvements are developed, and we see a benefit and jump on the band wagon.

Don't get me wrong, I do it too. But, to answer the question, No I wouldn't be heartbroken if magically we had to revert to Single Action Army revolvers and side x side shotguns, we would make it work.
What does Clint Smith say, learn to fight with what ya got.

Practically speaking, I wouldn't ever want to give up my P365; I'm in a communist state, so lightweight and VERY concealable is almost necessary.
However, the more time I've spent at the range for fun (not qualifying/training), the more I've come to appreciate (& love) my 1911's/Beretta's/classic P-Series guns.

Folks need to focus more on the doing than the do-dads. Doesn't matter if the firearm is a handgun, rifle, or shotgun. Consider how many threads are related to "what should I buy" and "here's what I just bought", compared to "here's how I'm training with my firearm".

Yes I would be sad. I have all those “old” guns you speak of and they do a fine job of many things. Yet I pull out a steel frame PDP with a Holosun SCS and it does everything my beloved Berettas can do. And more. Anything I can do with my 226 I can do better and further and more accurately and faster (other than close up which is more of a draw) with my “magic” guns. That’s just factual. And verifiable under a timer and scoring. Which is where most dissenters differ. Most dissenters are absolutely positive they aren’t faster yet if you ask for times you get a blank stare. Science is a merciless bitch. It either is or it isn’t.

The new stuff is better. I have tons of old guns because I’m old. I pretty much guarantee I couldn’t take 3 of them from last century and dump them into a big pile of parts and build 3 guns back together that worked great. I can do that with modern guns easily. The whole myth of “hand built” is over wrought. They were hand fitted because the manufactured tolerances require some amount of hand fitting to work. Which also led to more hands on and test firing which is better than today. Today we basically are test firing (beta) our guns for the first time and finding flaws that were caught in the past. That sucks.

I love the old guns. I love old cars. Unlike many though I don’t pretend the old stuff is better. Not necessarily. For all the complaints of 2 piece barrels being inferior I have yet to hear of anybody having to get that style revolver barrel timed either. I have told my children a hundred times that a good car when I was a kid meant it started MOST of the time. lol. How many times did we all spray that stuff into the carburetor on a cold morning?

Could I live without it? Of course. The new stuff helps me shoot better. It’s more intuitive, not to old guys but take 2 brand new shooters identical in all ways and train one on irons and one on dots and the dot guy will easily surpass the other quickly. Also science.

I don’t want to lose the new stuff. At all.

Personal pet peeve. “Don't waste your time and money on equipment, spend it on training”. Oh brother. Or there are millions of us who somehow manage both sides of that equation. Telling people you can’t buy skill is true but it is only a half truth. If you get trained effectively and practice regularly you ABSOLUTELY will benefit from buying a better gadget. If you neither learn nor practice then the gadget doesn’t matter. How about this? Buy the best gun and equipment you can afford and learn and train effectively with that gear? How about we quit pretending you can buy gear or training but not both? “Don’t waste your money on a good optic buy ammo”. Or friggin buy both. Duh. If you can’t afford both well that sucks. Save up till you can or enjoy your hi point. I don’t want to sound like bac but guns aren’t that pricy nowadays. A Glock clone and a holosun wont set you back but 600 bucks.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Personal pet peeve. “Don't waste your time and money on equipment, spend it on training”. Oh brother. Or there are millions of us who somehow manage both sides of that equation.

Right there with you.

I'm way behind the curve on this, but I'm one of those who said he'd never do a pistol mounted red dot and I had it empirically proven how wrong I was numerous times over the last year. I finally made the switch and it's just better. A box stock Glock can be used to defend oneself, yes, but if you want to measure your performance on the clock and calculate hit factor on an average of five runs with a stock Glock vs one with even just a red dot and a good trigger, you're going to see a difference. It's likely enough that the difference will be a big one, provided you've put in enough work on the dry fire an fundamentals. "Do you need all that stuff?" is asking the wrong question, to my mind. For the kinds of tasks a person uses a gun for, why wouldn't you want to take every advantage you can get?

I actually have a Gen 1 17. I'm not shooting matches with it. Even when I was shooting Limited earlier this year, I took the Gen 5. Part of that is the fact the Gen 1 is a collector's item, but even at equal value, Glock has made a ton of improvements in the ensuing 40 years since that gun was built. The repros they released are going for $300 because nobody wants them.

If you're the guy who has a collection of handguns you take to the range and shoot from a static firing line for groups a couple times a year, then buy whatever you like, but I personally weight opinions from those guys a lot lower than anyone who shoots competitively or for work. Working with a shot timer is life-changing for a shooter, and if you don't have any experience with that, it's like hearing a virgin opine about their sexual prowess and technique.

I'm a curious person and like to experience things for myself, so I've dabbled in most of these things at one point or another. I've found there to be more value to some of them than others.

Regarding optics I agree with Pedro. I don't need it, but I do like it. Training is a must regardless, but all else being equal an optic is as close to being able to "buy performance" as you can get. You still have to know how to shoot to leverage it, but it does make things easier and the numbers don't lie.

Comps and ports...meh. I think they have a niche, but that niche isn't on a 9mm carry gun. I dabbled in one for a bit and the minute difference that it made on the clock was nowhere near enough of a benefit to justify the downsides.

Threaded barrel, unless it's a suppressor host then I don't need that thing sticking out the front of my gun. I'm not putting a comp on anything again, and I'm not putting a can on a carry gun even if they came completely off the NFA, so barring a very particular use-case I don't want it.

Rails I don't care. For a nightstand or duty gun, I want one. For most carry applications I don't need it. I don't share the hatred that some here do for them. I don't find their presence to interfere with anything I'm trying to do, but I simply don't use them 90% of the time.

Plastic striker-fired I've gone back and forth on. The whole P320 debacle and not being able to positively identify the issue there has really made me appreciate the honest design of a DA/SA or DAO handgun. Not having any preload on a decocked gun, and being able to easily visually or physically confirm it's condition by the position of the hammer is comforting, as is the added safety of a longer, heavier trigger pull. I'm 99% confident that my P320 isn't just going to go off on its own ...but I'm 100% confident than my P226 or P229 won't. That 1% makes more difference in my head than one would expect. Again, when we come back to the timer and scoring rings, I'm a bit better with the striker gun because it's easier to shoot consistently. But the DA/SA more than makes up for it in peace of mind. The plastic part of it doesn't bother me one bit...if somebody came out with a slimline DA/SA polymer handgun, I'd be ticked pink.

Hmmm.... Lets see:
1- Optics. Yes, I am experimenting with them but not because they are new and cool. Its because my eyes are no longer new and cool.
2- Suppressors. The cost involved is outrageous. And my hearing is already shot!
3- Compensators. More muzzle blast? Where do I sign up for that?
4- WMLs. If I worked the street again, absolutely! On my home defense SuperNova, absolutely! On my EDC pistol, never!
5- 2011s. I want one! But until an actually reliable one hits the market, using my 226 magazines, and retails for $800, I will wait it out!
6- Threaded barrels. Cant afford the can so... Why?
I guess trendy has passed me by!

Keep in mind I wasn’t saying “Bah none of this is value added and does nothing”. I absolutely agree and I am also faster with a dot.

I am just saying that the constant onslaught of stuff and the subsequent METOO METOO!!! Gets tiring and in many cases may not provide a huge ROI.

Trust me I have far more then my share of tech and or “the new hotness”. So this isn’t a get off my lawn post just a personal introspection. Am I faster with optics? Yes but do they make or break me? No. Do I like lights on my guns? Yeah (flashlight nerd). Do I NEED them probably not. Do I shoot a bit faster with a Walther striker trigger or Staccato…yeah do I want to carry either? No.

Again just a personal introspection more than anything. I am not planning on going all Brown Bess and SAA or anything. ….although be honest if I am charging you at O’Dark thirty in my boxers with a bayoneted brown Bess and bandoleer of revolvers yelling get the gimp suit honey your gonna think twice about your career choices.

My current Duty Weapon is a 5th Gen G-34, Trigicon RMRHD, Tlr-1HD. I got everything at a really good price. Off Duty is a 5th Gen G-43x, Shield mags, Holosun EPS. I like the setup, and it works well for me.

Could I give it up and go back to my 3rd Gen G-21 w/TLR-1?
No problem at all.

Could I give it up and go back to my Sig P-220?
No problem at all.

My P-226?
No problem at all.

A decent 1911? Or BHP? S&W Mod-19 / -66?
OH YEAH!

Is my current setup’s “better”? Well, it does make it easier for me to shoot. And doing what I do for work, I really like having a light on my gun. Without my reading glasses, the sights look like a blob, so the RDS is perfect.

That being said, when I retire, my EDC is probably going to be a BHP. Yeah, it will have some work done to it, but no lights/RDS’/bells/whistles/sharks with laserbeams on it. And Ill be just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
….although be honest if I am charging you at O’Dark thirty in my boxers with a bayoneted brown Bess and bandoleer of revolvers yelling get the gimp suit honey your gonna think twice about your career choices.

You toss a pirate hat on, and I might actually pay a little extra for that show!

Well ROI tops out at a good revolver or shotgun for most folks in most scenarios. You could probably get by with a baseball bat and a can of bear spray.

Personally I want to shoot tighter groups faster and further at will. The new fangled stuff aids my ability to do that. Do I need it? I guess not but why wouldn’t I use the me too stuff if it actually provides a benefit?

And it does provide a benefit. We could all carry around Model 66’s and a couple speed loaders and be fine. You ain’t winning any matches that way though. Lol

Good luck with your gimp suit. No pics though please.

Me (old guy coughing) who just picked up a S&W 6906, then immediately followed that with a 3913. So count me in the old(er) school camp.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
2- Suppressors. The cost involved is outrageous. And my hearing is already shot!

You can buy a quality, quiet can for your pistol for well under $500. That's less than the cost of a new Glock, and with mounts and tax stamp, it can still be done for well under a grand. After the new year, you can lop $200 off that price point, and there's also going to be something that didn't really exist before: a market for used suppressors. Hearing damage is cumulative, and what doesn't hurt anymore can still take away from the hearing you have left. For a carry gun, a suppressor isn't feasible, but there's a lot of realistic application for one outside that role.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
3- Compensators. More muzzle blast? Where do I sign up for that?

It's the same amount of muzzle blast, it's just directed up and to the sides instead of forward.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
4- WMLs. If I worked the street again, absolutely! On my home defense SuperNova, absolutely! On my EDC pistol, never!

If I never went out after dark, I could see this. In the day and age of the TLR-7, I think "never" with an exclamation point is kind of a silly mindset, personally.

quote:

You toss a pirate hat on, and I might actually pay a little extra for that show!

I mean.....times are tough, what are we talking here.

Gotta have a light

I’d go even older and say ( para is right about the light, but that can be a handheld using one of the appropriate techniques to employ it)
Not too much in the handgun world that can’t be accomplished with a S&W K frame 38/357.

Honestly a 4” model 19 ( or 66 if you are into stainless which I can’t stand) is about the most versatile platform on the planet.
-Adjustable sights, so can be dialed in for any bullet weight and velocity range.
-With snake shot has a utility the semi lacks
-Top end loads and can be a viable close range deer gun
- with 148 wadcutters a viable 25/50 yard bullseye gun
- with appropriate ammo a not too hard to conceal carry gun
- K’s were of course the most popular service gun for near a century for cops
K’s even saw military service
With the exception of not being a law enforcement officer I have used a 357 K in all these roles.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

I mean.....times are tough, what are we talking here.

If the show is good, I’ll easily go through a fist full of $20’s!

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Gotta have a light

Oh, absolutely no arguments there!

Going from 1911’s and a P-226 where you needed a new slide stop for the old school 1st Gen SureFire WML that stuck out about 2 inches or so, to having rails and the ability to easily toss on a WML sure is a game changer!

Can I go back to a flashlight in one hand and a pistol in the other? Yeah. Could I still hit stuff? Yeah, but probably not as fast.
But with “modern amenities” on today’s firearms, why would one want to?