Page 1 2
Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Member |
If you zero at 25 then the bullet trajectory is +_ 1" from 0-50. Which for all practical purposes is the usable range of the 9mm cartridge. Other zeros have much bigger divergence like a 7y zero will have a variation of +_ 3 inches over that range. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
|
| Imagination and focus become reality |
Okay, but I am thinking that zeroing at 10 yards would be a happy median since I doubt that you could claim self defense at 50 yards. Maybe you could but it would be highly unlikely. | |||
|
The cake is a lie! |
It's possible, but this thread is about Law Enforcement, which have different scenarios than the typical CCW carrier. | |||
|
| Imagination and focus become reality |
Fair point! | |||
|
| Member |
That's a decent answer and the kind I think people are looking for. I can generally shoot good groups at 25 and agree that you get a little more data than you do at 10. | |||
|
For real? |
I need to dig up my class notes. We went to a red dot instructor class back in February. IIRC, we zeroed at 10 yards then confirmed and fine tuned at 25 yards. At 25 yards we all did 8 ring or better on a B8 target. And this was before I got glasses to correct my astigmatism and nearsightedness. Not minority enough! | |||
|
| Member |
A fair question. The reasons for 25 yard zero have less to do with the various self defense scenarios and more to do with the nature of trajectory and ballistics. A 25 yard zero will give you a trajectory that doesn't dip below an inch under line of sight up until that 25 yard line. So, if you are shooting someone at 2 yards, your bullets may impact, at most, an inch below your point of aim. Which, in a self defense shooting, will very likely be negligible and the expression of unrealistic expectations of both one's skill and the dynamics of the moment. I prefer my zero to be as practical as possible. Ignem Feram | |||
|
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
Zeroing at shorter distances will often feed into self deception...because the shooter will not hold themselves to a realistic standard. At 7 yards,even at 10 yards, your shots should be right on top of each other. I'm not talking about into an X-zone or a fist sized group. I'm not talking about taking a second between shots either, but pressing off your shot as soon as the sights return. You can easily zero at 10 yards and be way off at 25 yards. 25 yards isn't as far as many believe, it is 20 yards from my kitchen to my front door No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
|
| Imagination and focus become reality |
Excellent answers by both mlazarus and 9mmepiphany! Although one on top of the other at 10 yards unsupported is beyond my skill level partially due to physical issues. Also, being way off at 25 yards is not important to me because I am extremely unlikely to have to defend myself at that distance. | |||
|
| Member |
I went with 15 yards for my own RDS (no agency requirement) based on my job and actual use. Patrol may require a further zero, detectives perhaps a closer one. I hope I never need to use it. | |||
|
| Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
When I worked in the Courthouse and the Airport, I advocated for more concentration at longer distances. I wanted to work in some drills for making hits at 50 yards No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
|
| Member |
I zeroed my new red dot at 25 yards in two shots. First shot was 10" high, a bit left. I walked down and put a second orange target spot over the hole. Next, hold the gun so it don't move, aiming at the original target spot, and adjust the dot to hit the second target spot. You are now very close to zero, can fine tune. The farther zero distance will make the adjustments move more, so your not giving it 15 clicks to move POI 1.5" Zeroing unsupported is a waste of ammo in my opinion. I want to know the pistols mechanical zero, so if it shoots off unsupported, I know its me, not the pistol. | |||
|
| Member |
Since we are talking duty guns here the raw accuracy at 25y is probably in the range of 2-3" depending a bit on gun, barrel and ammo. And the RDS with a typical dot of 3-6 moa is another 1-2" in just dot size (which can be managed somewhat in target type used). So that single second shot could be 3-5" from a decent zero. Unless of course you meant the "fine tune" part was to actually shoot groups of rounds which is how zeroing is typically done to manage that variability. I'm unclear what you mean about clicks as the adjustments are in MOA. I happen to agree with you that not doing this from a rest certainly has the potential to waste a bunch of ammo. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
|
| Member |
Yes, I had to shoot groups to fine tune. My dot has 1moa adjustments, 1 click= 1 moa | |||
|
| Member |
My point on adjustments is that zeroing distance does not affect the number of clicks. its angular. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
|
| Member |
Sure distance matters. 4 clicks= 1” at 25yards, 10 clicks = 1” at 10yards. It’s faster to dial in a group at 25, plus you get to see the error better. You are right on the angle | |||
|
| Member |
The same angular error takes the same number of clicks adjustment no matter the distance. Its not faster. Your comparison on clicks is a false flag. A 1" error at 25y would be a .4" error at 10 and need the same 4 clicks. And the exact reverse for your example at 10. For sure finding the small errors at close distance is way harder than at reasonable ranges. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
|
| Member |
I understand MOA, we are both correct in our math. Glad you agree that it’s easier at 25  If you get it very close with 2 shots, you are saving ammo, with minor adjusting for groups. Just trying to get it sighted with the least amount of ammo. | |||
|
| Member |
My point in all this is, you can get a very close rough zero with 2 shots, at 25 yards. The trick is to hold the gun very still while adjusting the dot over to the first shot hole. If you start at 10 yards off hand, and adjust the sight for 4" of error, you will more then likely use a lot more than 2 rounds, just to get as close as my rested 25 yard method does with 2 shots. At 10 yards, 4" would be 40 clicks, and unless the shooter does the math, he will probably give it 8-10 clicks and shoot again to only have moved POI 1" It's all good, in the end the gun will be zeroed. | |||
|
| Member |
I use mostly Shield sights. I used to set mine at 25 feet due to I'm figuring most SD shots (been there_ are at very close range. Shield advised 17 meters stating that will due well for close shots and it'll handle longer range shots too. Tried it and on ten inch steel gong targets (represent mass) does work out. When not shooting at the gong targets my nephew and me shoot at yellow ( cheap at Walmart) tennis balls out on our desert. I like Shield sights because they are designed from the start for pistols. You choose between double stack pistols and single stack pistols. I have Sig's Romeo 1 on my P320. My XL has the Shield RMSc. ( My usual EDC ) For out on the desert or up in the Santa Rita (bears, Mountain Lions and occasional jaguar up there__ my P229 or P226 with Buffalo Bore bear loads. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2024