--Update--

Sadly there will be no return to service for this pistol. After much discussion with Mrs. Policetruck, this gun will be stripped down and sold for parts. I will probably cut the slide for an RMR and post it for sale along with the SRT parts. I will keep the frame and do some machining on it for practice and then probably destroy it. I will still post any modifications done here and try my best to photo document everything. Thanks for all the interesting comments both pro and con.

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So, I stumbled across a P229 legion in .40 that was being sold for parts only. The story was, it hade a case rupture with no clear explanation of why. I bought it for a very reasonable price.

When I received it, there was a repair order from whomever sent it to Sig. The gunsmith’s comments are as follows: Inspected pistol. Pistol received with extractor broken. and the frame rails bent and beginning to crack The pistol cannot be repaired, it is not covered under warranty and is no longer safe to fire. Returned pistol as received with no work performed.

This is the part that really bugs me because I don’t feel an adequate inspection was completed. I don’t expect anything to have been covered by them for an ammunition related problem, but to render the pistol unserviceable and unusable should have been determined by hard evidence. The gun wasn’t even cleaned.

In less than two days time I have completely stripped the frame, cleaned the entire gun, drilled out the extractor roll pin, de-burred some of the damaged areas, measured the rails for misalignment, and checked for cracks via liquid penetrant testing.

I will attach pictures from the work so far. I have found that the rails actually get just a little tighter towards the magazine well. I clamped a parallel across the frame rails and only measure a deviation of .004” on the side opposite of the extractor. I’m a machinist, not a gunsmith but I wouldn’t really call that bent. Aside from some of the finish removal and a small gouge on the rear frame rails, I would say it’s perfectly safe to shoot. I understand that I may get decreased life from the pistol due to the bare aluminum on the rails, but I think with a good refinish and proper lubrication, the gun should perform well.







Under a 10x lens



Under a 40x lens, not nearly as big and clear as real life...This is the worst section of rail by the ejector pin









No, it’s not a crime scene... crack penetrating dye.



Cleaned and applied developer, no cracks...isn’t that strange.





So next I’ll be sending th frame off for a refinish while I wait for a new spring, roll pin and extractor. I may even order a 9mm conversion barrel for it. In the mean time, let me know if there was anything you would’ve done differently or other suggested checks.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: policetruck,

If that was my high dollar Sig, I would have called back Sig and asked what "beginning to crack" actually meant.
Once this is back together, update me, please. I would like to know how it shoots.

I plan to use the Repair order as the test target. I will keep everyone updated. I actually didn’t want the gun, I just hate to see it trashed.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: policetruck,

You don't know the story behind the frame.

SIG only offers a limited lifetime warranty, which is made to the original purchaser who might be several degrees of separation down the road from the guy who sent it in to SIG.

If the gun is outside the limited lifetime warranty, SIG is not expressly liable to repair or replace the firearm.

However, if they do inspect and certify it, and something goes wrong, they could be on the hook for that. If someone loses a finger or an eye, that's going to cost SIG way more than the profit margin on rebuilding the pistol. They already sold the pistol once and made their profit. What additional profit could justify the risk of certifying a damages pistol as safe?

From their perspective it's easy to see why this frame was scrapped.

It's yours now, you can do whatever you want with it. You're free to disagree with SIG's assessment, but you assume the risk should something fail.

LDD, please don't get me wrong. I completely understand where Sig is on not warrantying anything, I just didn't like the explanation of cracked rails. I felt that it's pretty lazy. If they wanted to just cover their butt, they could've easily said, after a catastrophic ammunition failure the gun shouldn't be used.

quote:

Originally posted by policetruck:
In the mean time, let me know if there was anything you would’ve done differently or other suggested checks.

It looks like you bead blasted the frame, including the rails.

Now it's done.

quote:

Originally posted by policetruck:
LDD, please don't get me wrong. I completely understand where Sig is on not warrantying anything, I just didn't like the explanation of cracked rails. I felt that it's pretty lazy. If they wanted to just cover their butt, they could've easily said, after a catastrophic ammunition failure the gun shouldn't be used.

I think SIG did say that:

quote:

is no longer safe to fire

But at the point the pistol made its way to inspection in Pease, it was owned by a party other than SIG, so if SIG smashed or chopped the frame they'd be liable for conversion/theft. That would leave them on the hook for whatever value the pistol had left--at that point they probably would be better off replacing it (which would cost them the profit of a brand new P229 .40 in support of a gun that was expressly outside of the limited lifetime warranty).

You might have scored a good deal on a pistol that was written off, but actually is still usuable. The difference isn't necessarily in the physical, but in the intangibles.

My point is that while you are willing to take the risk that this P229 might not work out, SIG isn't, and each of you gets to make your own call.

Looking forward, the issue I have here is still liablity/risk: You know the gun has been written off by the manufacturer. You repair it, let's say someone else gets ahold of it legally (you let them shoot it under your supervision, or you sell it), does that expose you to liability if it fails catastrophically? If you let someone shoot it and it kBs!, you also knew the manufacturer said it's not safe to fire anymore. If you sell it, I can see a case for implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose (that the gun is safe to shoot ammunition out of).

If you never let someone shoot it, and you never sell it, how much is this gun going to be worth to you? You already said you don't really want it.

You're free to do what you want and take those risks, just know what you're getting into.

LDD,
I absolutely understand your point about liability and risk. What's the gun worth to me, not much monetarily but I enjoy investigating and fixing things. What I learn from this adventure is what's in it for me.

sns3guppy,
No worries!! No bead blasting was performed. That white powder stuff on the frame is the developer, used to expose the cracks after the dye has been applied.

Could it be possible that Sig X-RAYS frames to check for cracks or fractures? Some penetrate dyes work better than others depending on material, anodized and size of fracture. I wouldn't risk it, especially if Sig said it was a bad frame.

quote:

sns3guppy,
No worries!! No bead blasting was performed. That white powder stuff on the frame is the developer, used to expose the cracks after the dye has been applied.

I understand dye-pen testing...I've done it thousands of times on aircraft. The appearance in the picture looked different. There's a lot of dye in evidence, which suggests that the area wasn't thoroughly cleaned before the developer was applied, which will invalidate the test.

Remember that dye penetrant *may* detect a surface crack, though not necessarily so, but won't tell you anything about stress in the metal or that the part has incurred. It wont' tell you anything about subsurface stress or cracks, or anything beyond the surface tested.

Doesn't matter what we think. Once the gun has been altered in some ways, except for normal wear and tear, be it by accident/explosion or by unauthorized bubba gunsmithing, they will refuse to work on it.

Make sure to record your first range session for us!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Make sure to record your first range session for us!!!!!

We ARE a morbid bunch as you know

I’d just shoot the fucking thing !

But that’s me.



.

If SIG felt the gun was unsafe, why did they send it back and just melt it down?

I'm a bit lost on how a frame itself can be unsafe. A slide, a barrel, etc. I would understand. Physically deformed to be unusable (like non usable frame rails) I can't conceive of what failure would be dangerous in the frame and not completely obvious? I've had the rails crack and fail, the frame crack and lots of internal parts shit the bed. But unless the locking block could somehow catastrophically separate from the frame which seems unlikely how would one have a disaster. Not picking a side in this just asking.

It's not their property. They have no legal right to do that. The owner could have sued them.

quote:

Originally posted by giz55792:
If SIG felt the gun was unsafe, why did they send it back and just melt it down?

If you added up the hours you have spent to clean and inspect and then add the refinish cost, how much should they spend on this chunk of machined aluminum?
Also factor in that this should be represented as a gun with a history if someone resells it and how much diminished value might lower the value.
I'm sure they have a number in mind to supply a new frame. When that number is exceeded then it's trash. Just like a car the insurance company totals. Doesn't mean that someone with the skills and equipment can't put it back on the road. The dollars just don't line up.

Grumpy,

My thoughts exactly, I’m not trying to pawn it off on someone. I just thought it would be a fun project and people might like to see it.

And I’m not much on videoing but I’ll take pictures of it’s first outing after rebuild.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
If you added up the hours you have spent to clean and inspect and then add the refinish cost, how much should they spend on this chunk of machined aluminum?
Also factor in that this should be represented as a gun with a history if someone resells it and how much diminished value might lower the value.
I'm sure they have a number in mind to supply a new frame. When that number is exceeded then it's trash. Just like a car the insurance company totals. Doesn't mean that someone with the skills and equipment can't put it back on the road. The dollars just don't line up.

This. Not worth the energy. I love to tinker with stuff and get a lot of enjoyment out of fixing/figuring things out. Not going to waste my time on some range toy which I could possibly buy new at a lower cost or buy used at higher quality and similar/lower cost AND rely on for my protection.

To me a gun is a tool, if I'm not confident it will do the job I am asking of it 99.9% of the time, I'll find a better made tool.