When will it finally be released & what will the difference be with the P210 Legend

quote:

Originally posted by tc25:
When will it finally be released

No one knows. Don't believe any promised release date, and then get disappointed.

quote:

& what will the difference be with the P210 Legend

The barrel-to-slide lockup mechanism.

Q, are you saying that the internals on the P210 American will be different from all previous P210s?

What makes it a P210 then other than exterior appearance and marketing.

I did not know this and am disappointed...

quote:

Originally posted by quantum13:
Q, are you saying that the internals on the P210 American will be different from all previous P210s?

What makes it a P210 then other than exterior appearance and marketing.

I did not know this and am disappointed...

Don't know about anything else, but that's the major difference everyone was talking about, when it first showed its face at SHOT 2016. The barrel-to-slide locking of the American P210 is like that of other P-series SIGSs, which is completely different from the original P210 (locking lugs on top of the barrel mated to the corresponding "gouges" on the slide, like the 1911).

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Don't know about anything else, but that's the major difference everyone was talking about, when it first showed its face at SHOT 2016. The barrel-to-slide locking of the American P210 is like that of other P-series SIGSs, which is completely different from the original P210 (locking lugs on top of the barrel mated to the corresponding "gouges" on the slide, like the 1911).

Thanks Q. Back to looking for a Legend again. I really want one of these to shoot; if the American 210 is going to be like that, i hardly see the point as barrel to slide lockup seems a critical component of that legendary accuracy...

The slide rides inside the frame, which may be part of the reason for the high accuracy. My P320 shoots 2" groups at 50 yards, according to Bruce Gray. Therefore the more modern barrel lock up may not be compromising accuracy.

The X-guns have ejection port lock up, and they're as accurate as P210s.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
The X-guns....... and they're as accurate as P210s.

Based on?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
The X-guns....... and they're as accurate as P210s.

Based on?

A few months ago, in this forum, a member described the results of an accuracy experiment. Several Swiss and German P210s, and an X5, were test fired from a machine rest at targets at 50 yard range (as I recall). The result: no significant difference in accuracy among them. But the very best group was fired from the X5.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
The X-guns....... and they're as accurate as P210s.

Based on?

A few months ago, in this forum, a member described the results of an accuracy experiment. Several Swiss and German P210s, and an X5, were test fired from a machine rest at targets at 50 yard range (as I recall). The result: no significant difference in accuracy among them. But the very best group was fired from the X5.

Thanks. I somehow missed that. If I had to guess, it's probably bac1023 who did that.

But, just looking at all the 50-meter targets from all the Swiss P210s and the 25-meter targets from all the X5s out there, I just don't see the X5 in general beating the P210 in accuracy.

Could someone please find that thread?

Here you go:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...curate-pistols-part/

With that huge red dot on the X5, the above link is not a fair comparison. There's another thread that actually contradicts the X5 series' accuracies versus the P210 based on their performance measure in Swiss hands. Maybe OTD posted it, regardless both pistols are plenty accurate for me and the difference is splitting hairs IMHO.

I'm not a likely buyer, but admit I would like to lay hands on an American P210 just to compare with the Swiss and German versions for myself. Hope it's not like the Colt 1913 commercial shown a few years ago, but never actually put into production. Reference the X-5 vs. P210 accuracy, I strongly suspect that if one had the luxury of testing 10 of each in a machine rest, some X-5s would be more accurate than some 210s, and vice versa. Then, changing ammunition would likely change the rankings again. I can only say that in my hands, and using a pistol rest, at 25 yards any difference in accuracy between my Swiss and German 210s, and my X-5, was so insignificant as to be undetectable by me. I could shoot good groups with the 210s more often, but that's just me,not because the 210s were intrinsically more accurate, IMHO. Though I have only used one red dot on a pistol, and a cheap one at that, for me it made a significant difference in group size at 25 yards......ymmv.

PS, the X-5 and P210 are both such accurate pistols, our debate here may be as relevant as, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

quote:

Originally posted by quantum13:
Q, are you saying that the internals on the P210 American will be different from all previous P210s?

And will probably have indo-mim small parts.

I am still interested in a compact model with supertarget safety.

quote:

Originally posted by tc25:
When will it finally be released & what will the difference be with the P210 Legend

the Legend has Browning/Müller barrel lock, the US remake will probably be Browning/Webley. For it's advertised price it is possible it might not use the Petter patent. That is is my speculation. It does not matter sience its absence does not compromise neither performance nor accuracy, but has a big impact on price. It might not be the P210 one wants to expect, but if they keep balance and ergonomy it sure will be a good gun.

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Originally posted by Voshterkoff:

quote:

Originally posted by quantum13:
Q, are you saying that the internals on the P210 American will be different from all previous P210s?

And will probably have indo-mim small parts.

Good. Indo-min is the technological leader in mim manufacturing. They have the know-how and the equippment.

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:

quote:

Originally posted by tc25:
When will it finally be released & what will the difference be with the P210 Legend

the Legend has Browning/Müller barrel lock, the US remake will probably be Browning/Webley. For it's advertised price it is possible it might not use the Petter patent. That is is my speculation. It does not matter sience its absence does not compromise neither performance nor accuracy, but has a big impact on price. It might not be the P210 one wants to expect, but if they keep balance and ergonomy it sure will be a good gun.

What is the nature of the Petter patent?

And what is the Webley connexion?

I figure Muller to be the source of the single surface lockup. Am I right? Or did he introduce the "kidney cut"?

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
And what is the Webley connexion?

[QUOTE]I figure Muller to be the source of the single surface lockup.

,Unfortunately not. The single surface lock up is actually of Webley.

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Am I right? Or did he introduce the "kidney cut"?

yes, the close cam path is SIG/Müller