I can only suggest: Scarce markings on a somewhat scarce, but sought after caliber. I know that I would love to have an example.

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
SIGSauer built about 6000 pistols of this first type. What makes the Hawes of the standard production so special compared to the Browning series, which is a type of its own? Is Hawes historically significant?

In the United States, one will encounter dozens of BDAs for sale for every Hawes-marked P220 for sale. Hawes-imported P220s are not special, but they are scarce. It seems to me that an early P220, rollmarked as such, and with SIG-Sauer's standard finish at the time, is a more desireable pistol to the SIG collector than the BDA (unless one is attempting to complete a collection), which had polished slide flats and shiny grips, etc. In terms of early P220s, the Hawes-marked pistols are a purer example than the BDAs. In Europe, I imagine that in terms of early P220s, standard production pistols are far more common than either BDAs or Hawes-marked example. The opposite is true here in the states.

You've seen new members come in here, all giddy that they have a "Lyson's Corner" import (mis)marking on a P226. We see these pistols not infrequently in the forum, so much so that it's become a running joke here, but the owners of these pistols seem to think they've struck gold. And that's all about scarcity.

Here's an interesting one. This is my .38 Super BDA. Check the serial number and the box. My guess is this pistol was intended for the European market, hence the SIG serial number and not Browning's, and the SIG-Sauer box and not Browning's. Other than those two things, this is a BDA all the way- high-polished slide flats, etc.

All numbers matching

The Browning distribution rights was limited to to North America only. There´s a few BDA´s on Europe only and they have been distributed to the private market by Hämmerli.

This odd BDA apperas to me as a pistol form the SIGSauer series that was factory converted to fill a Browning order. (It`s a speculation).

Then, why no Browning box? Fifteen cents worth of cardboard and styrofoam.

quote:

Originally posted by p08:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
Very nice bottle nose Hawes.
I find my P220 in 38 Super to be wonderfully accurate.
Are you going to take it to the range? Or just kind of preserve it for the moment?

I used to shoot it years ago, but when I found out how uncommon it was I stopped shooting it...

You shouldn't have any worries about shooting your .38 at all. While 7.65mm ammo is easier to find for keeping old P220s warm, I shoot my P220 chambered in 9mm Steyr when the ammo presents itself. The added plus is that nobody runs off with my brass.

I hope all you serious guys can appreciate a personal joke. I am not a serious student of sig history and production volumes. But I do collect ones that I come across that are odd and seem unusual. Not actively, just when I see them at what seems like a good price. So I'm pretty sure the fact that I several BDA's in different calibers and no Hawes marked ones makes them rare. Lyson's Corner also not rare... In principle if I have it and some newbie says is ti rare I say of course not...
On a serious note I always learn a bunch in these discussions, so thank you all.

Same here. I'm not sure of how many of each variety were made. Never looked in to it. I first bought a 7.65mm P220 because it was neat. Being an opportunist, when a P220 chambered in 7.65mm presented itself for $700, I bought it. when another one was made available for about the same price? Why not? A few months ago I helped a guy integrate his CNC to work by a remote server. A head scratcher for sure. What did he have that would get me there? This one came with the wood grips and a laser. Hadn't seen the laser before.

Would I consider the 7.65mm variety of the P220 to be hard to find now that I have four of them? Not terribly so.

Would I consider a BDA in 7.65mm to be hard to find? Well, I haven't seen one of those...

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Would I consider the 7.65mm variety to be hard to find now that I have four of them? Not terribly so.

Might not be for you but sure is for the other guy, since you're hoarding them all.

quote:

Would I consider a BDA in 7.65mm to be hard to find? Well, I haven't seen one of those...

The other guy has five.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Would I consider a BDA in 7.65mm to be hard to find? Well, I haven't seen one of those...

It's more than that, because you know they don't exist. "Nonexistent" does not equate to "scarce" or "rare".



Regarding .30 Luger P220s, well, I have just the one, alas.

But, considering its absolute mint condition, it's appropriate that I bought it from Cherry's.

It's just a gem. Can you post that photo showing its barrel Para? Those guns are very unique to just that cartridge.

Nice!

Doesn't get much more minty than that!

The only reason I think a 7.65 BDA was made is that member Dusty Dave said he had one in the Serial list as 396RP-7396 from 1980.

Other than that, Member Tooky13 has an awesome example of one of the very few Sig Sauer P220s that are stamped as a 9mm Luger. Not many of those around. I had a chance to get one, but had to buy tires instead.

The only other one I remember missing out on was a 9x21 P220, Wasn't sure if the conversion was factory or an aftermarket job with the W. German models as it was an overstamp and rechamber of the 9mm Para. The current 9x21 production versions appear to leave the factory as such. FWIW, I was able to find one of the .38 to 9mm conversions. Came with an unserialized 9 barrel, serialized 38 barrel, and one overstamped magazine. The modified magazine may be the only unique part of that production run.

When getting a 9mm Steyr P220 imported, it took a while. When my importer was giving some updates, she said "Currently, the ATF database does not include P220s in 9x23 Steyr caliber." so I think that will be as rare as I'll ever be able to find.

There could be more that have had their true story lost to history. The early '80s was an interesting time that many different versions were produced.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
It's just a gem. Can you post that photo showing its barrel Para? Those guns are very unique to just that cartridge.

I'd have to get it out of my safe deposit box at the bank.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
The only reason I think a 7.65 BDA was made is that member Dusty Dave said he had one in the Serial list as 396RP-7396 from 1980.

The story may have validity. Apparently, there was a late run of .30 Luger P220s in 1980. My example is so proofed, but with an early serial number of G106231.

It could be that an example or two of .30 Luger BDAs were produced. However, even though Browning catalogued the BDA until 1980, the 9x19mm and .38 Super chamberings of the BDA disappeared from the Browning catalog in 1978 IIRC. Given that of the (roughly) 13,000 BDAs produced, (roughly) 10,000 were in .45 ACP, Browning Arms entertaining the idea of a .30 Luger BDA at the end of BDA production is unlikely, to say the least.