I would go with the M&P 45 2.0. It is reliable, the trigger is good, and mags are cheap.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Easy, Glock. If you only have .45's in a 1911, a Glock is a pretty natural choice.

Just curious, why that would be? I’d imagine the 1911 would be more similar to the HK45, which has the same grip angle as the 1911. Or is there an aspect that I’m missing?

^^^^what he said? You can even run the HK cocked and locked so the manual of arms is the same?

Not that I think a Glock 21 would be a bad choice just that your statement would lead me right to HK.

Definitely the HK45.

I shoot it well and I trust it to be reliable, but mainly because that's the only one that I have an OWB holster for and I'm pretty sure that extra comfort will make the apocalypse tolerable.

This one. By far.

USP 45 over the HK 45 and Mk 23 which is too big.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
USP 45 over the HK 45 and Mk 23 which is too big.

No, the Mk 23 is the perfect size for its intended purposes:

1) to be the ultimate suppressed offensive handgun.
2) rule over ALL other .45ACP pistols for all time.

Some people are just too small.

In all seriousness though, I would eliminate the 1911 from the list. While parts are widely available, 1911s are far more likely to actually NEED these spare parts than more modern designs. Also, key parts on a 1911 often require fitting as they’re not drop in replaceable in the same sense as modern designs.

Next off the list would likely be the P220. Great pistols but they have a limited magazine capacity. Also, alloy framed models would likely have a shorter service life than modern polymer framed pistols and the stainless framed models are unnecessarily heavy compared to polymer framed competitors. P220s would also likely need more spare parts than Glocks or HKs. They also require more lube than Glocks or HKs.

HKs and Glocks would likely yield similar results regarding durability. Glocks have the overwhelming advantage in terms of logistics. Spare parts are far easier to find as are accessories like holsters, sights etc.

So, in the end I’d have to say the G21 would be the logical choice. But I’d submit that as great as Glocks and other HKs are, The Mark 23 would be the king in terms of obscene durability which can likely run forever, shoot as accurately as a match pistol and handle .45 Super without need for mods or upgrades.

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Easy, Glock. If you only have .45's in a 1911, a Glock is a pretty natural choice.

Just curious, why that would be? I’d imagine the 1911 would be more similar to the HK45, which has the same grip angle as the 1911. Or is there an aspect that I’m missing?

I could speculate on the reasons why, but I'll just say I've observed that there's a fair overlap between 1911 guys and Glock guys. It gets mentioned here and there often enough that I thought this was just understood to be "a thing." The only duty caliber pistols in my safe are Glocks and 1911's. For me, at least, the gun only ever has the same trigger pull, safeties and manual of arms totally aside (and honestly, they're not all that different, just the Glock omits the thumb safety - all the other controls are in the same place and work the same way).

Speaking to grip angle, the 1911A1 and Glocks have the same grip angle and palm swell on the backstrap, so if you liked an arched mainspring housing on a 1911, you'll find Glocks to point pretty similarly. I am one of those folks.

I'm not saying that a Glock would be a better choice than an H&K, just that it would be a natural one. Though, if we're talking apocalypse, I'm thinking the Glock edges out the H&K simply because there's fewer parts on it to break, they're widely available everywhere, and you can tear the whole thing apart with a Bic pen and a butter knife should you need to.

Glock 21. And lots of inexpensive mags.

Where are these spare parts and accessories ??? This is the apocalypse we're talking about, right?

Every time I see someone mention spare parts and accessories, it also makes me wonder, what spare parts need replacing on any of the above? We aren't discussing race guns here, we're talking apocalypse, TEOTWAWKI!

I wouldn't be afraid of a 1911 unless it was made by HESS or some other low quality manufacturer. Most are well built, and built to stand the rigors of war and last a lifetime. I'd be more worried about a plastic gun melting or getting cold and fracturing. Admittedly both cases are unlikely.

This P220 Stainless Elite will do just fine for TEOTWAWKI! And I have some spare parts for it, if the need arises. An H&K would be a fine choice as well, I just don't have one.

USP 45. Bulletproof. Accurate. 13 rounds of go. It wasn’t a choice but I added it. Lol

I'm somewhat surprised this wasn't on your list:



I love my 1911, but my P320 FS is what I'd choose

quote:

I wouldn't be afraid of a 1911 unless it was made by HESS or some other low quality manufacturer. Most are well built, and built to stand the rigors of war and last a lifetime. I'd be more worried about a plastic gun melting or getting cold and fracturing. Admittedly both cases are unlikely.

I'm quite sure most custom 1911 smiths would agree, 1911s are FAR more maintenance intensive than modern designs. Also, there's a WIDE range of 1911s, not all are created equal. Most production 1911s use a host of MIM and/or cast components (which 1911s were never engineered for), many of which require gunsmith fitting when replaced. Then you get into magazine compatibility. Not all 1911s work with all 1911 magazines. Finally, by design, 1911s were never designed to accept hollow point ammo. With the wide spectrum of hollow point ammo on the market, they won't all run well in most production 1911s. Modern designs are far more forgiving in hollow point design.

Conversely, Glock, HK and most modern duty pistols have polymers that have been rigorously tested in extreme conditions by militaries around the world. The odds a Glock or HK would fail due to extreme temperature is almost nill.

It's all fun & games with a 1911 until your plunger tube departs the frame, it develops a hammer follow, the frame cracks, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
Where are these spare parts and accessories ??? This is the apocalypse we're talking about, right?

Every time I see someone mention spare parts and accessories, it also makes me wonder, what spare parts need replacing on any of the above? We aren't discussing race guns here, we're talking apocalypse, TEOTWAWKI!

Well, not to derail the thread, but simply put, if it’s the end of society and the world at large, I’m going to be more concerned with parts and maintenance, not less. They’re still making parts for everything right now. Some day, if they aren’t, it may be handy to have some rugged firearms where you stand a decent chance of scrounging parts and magazines for.

I wouldn’t pick a 1911 for this role unless I was a gunsmith. And besides, the OP said he has plenty of 1911’s and is looking to expand, so all this is moot from the get-go.

quote:

Well, not to derail the thread, but simply put, if it’s the end of society and the world at large, I’m going to be more concerned with parts and maintenance, not less.

Food for thought. Society as a whole right now is moving along swimmingly. Yes there is some unrest, yes the commie cough is a real thing and yes there is a bit of an economic downturn but basically it’s FAR from apocalyptic. That said you basically need to shank Santa Clause to get 50 rounds of 9mm.

All I’m saying is, if you are living in a REAL apocalypse you better have your parts and gear already and you better have a wide range of firearms skills because you will likely be “replacing” rather then maintaining.

Honestly keeping this whimsical and firearms related this may be the ONE instance where the Mark 23 makes a lot of sense.

When I think of the apocalypse I weight these.
1. how reliable will the firearm be in and of itself since time for maintenance and repairs may be a problem and access to parts even if I had them might be a problem.
2. how well will it do with no/little maintenance in a long term crisis since I might be a long way from being able to do that
3. how many parts can I stash in advance and at what cost.
4. what is the likelihood of getting parts from another source.
So for example the HK M23 might do well on #1 and #2. But it sucks on #3 and #4. Same for the rest of the HK lineup.
My favorite gun for the apocalypse is a 9mm or .40 glock. 1,2,3,4 are all off the charts compared to other options. Locally lots of parts from other parties if we get to that. But if it has to be in .45 then the G21 is the winner since you can prepare by getting all the parts, you don't need any special tools or low risk of parts lost (especially compared to on your M23 or USP). Not a chance anything else is close. FWIW>

quote:

But if it has to be in .45 then the G21 is the winner since you can prepare by getting all the parts, you don't need any special tools or low risk of parts lost (especially compared to on your M23 or USP)

Certainly the G21 makes a lot of sense, and it should be up near the top of anyone's list. For a lot of genuinely practical reasons, it should be most people's first choice. However, the Mark 23 is insanely overbuilt. It has ungodly slide mass to soak up recoil and it pioneered HK's dual recoil spring system. The polymer mass is also 2-3 times that of any other polymer framed pistol. If we're talking about a scenario where for some reason, spare parts are not an option, the Mark 23 is the king of the hill with the Glock and it's HK siblings fighting it out just below the summit.

The Mark 23 was tested to over 30,000 rounds of +P 45ACP without any parts breakages. As much as I love Glocks and the 21 in particular, it would be a pretty tall order to surpass the Mark 23. Tod L. Green ran an HK45 to over 50,000 rounds and it only required a trigger return spring. He wasn't running all +P loads through it either:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

If the HK45 can run that hard for that long, I have no doubt the Mark 23 will be running until the earth stops spinning.

I guess we have different views of the apocalypse. If you say I have to grab a gun and a couple of mags while I wonder the barren wasteland then for sure I'm grabbing an HK. If it has to be .45 then a m23 or an HK45 are the choices and not much to pick between them. But in that scenario it makes absolutely ZERO difference between the above choices. Well maintained all of them will run a couple of mags. Past that though pretty sure of my pistol collection in the grab and go view I would try to grab a P30 since Todd G went 90+K rounds on that. But the absolute end of the earth reliability doesn't mean squat in this. 30K rounds of .45 is like 4.5 tons. So if I can have access to that then I can have a few spare parts too. For the price of one M23 I can have 3-4 G21's to hide. And I can get a full spares kit on top of that delivered to my door tomorrow. I don't know if you own a M23 (I own several) but spares are a bit of an issue. So yup a couple of mags grab the HK. Prepare and plan grab your glock and its spares.