SIG’s M17 & M18 Modular Handgun Update
5/16/2017

www.SoldierSystems.net/2017/05/16/sofic-Sigs-M17-M18-Modular-Handgun-Update/

When [Soldier Systems] recently reported that the 101st Airborne Division and other Fort Campbell, Kentucky-based tenant units would be the first units equipped with the US Army’s new Modular Handgun System, there seems to be confusion by commenters over which model of pistol units would receive. The 4.7″ barrel M17 is similar to the full size P320 and will be the standard pistol. The Compact M18 features a 3.9″ barrel and will replace the M11, known commercially as the SIG P229.



Above you can see precisely how the M17 will be shipped to the Army. Below, is the M18.



Each pistol comes with one 17 round and two 21 round magazines as well as three frames (small, medium and large). Unlike many pistols, the frames are not the firearm but rather expendable parts. The trigger pack is the serial numbered item. The difference between the M17 and M18 is the length of the barrels and slides.



Currently, the pistol features a anti-tamper device so Soldiers can’t swap out frames on their own. However, the Army is considering removing this feature and replacing it with a standard commercial fastener.



An additional anti-tamper device prevents Soldiers from accessing the striker mechanism.



SIG introduced two additional safety features. There is a 1911-style ambi-safety as well as a loaded chamber indicator at top center of the breech on the slide. Finally, the slides have a removable sight plate with a Delta Point Pro footprint.

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From the article, it seems that the addition of the anti-tamper security feature to stop soldiers from removing the Striker kind of makes sense because its not a component that a soldier needs to lubricate as part of normal maintenance.

The anti-tamper feature to prohibit the Fire Control Unit from being removed from the Grip Module means that a Unit Armorer will need to be on hand for the soldier to determine which of the three Grip Modules best fits them.

That seems to go against the entire concept of having a Modular Handgun.

I didn't really understand that each pistol would be shipped with all three Grip Module sizes. I figured they would ship with Medium and have Large and Small on hand for change out. I can't imagine the amount of storage that will be needed just for the unused Grip Modules that ship with every pistol.

What about removal of the FCU for cleaning?

Does anyone else think those anti-tamper devices look a lot like spanner screws?

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Looks to me like the grip modules are the same in both pictures. The slide overhang in the "M17" picture looks like when I put a full size slide on a compact grip module. I don't know if those are compact or carry grip modules (I'd guess the latter), but they aren't full size grip modules.

I would view the slide cut as the most significant feature.

quote:

The Compact M18 features a 3.9″ barrel and will replace the M11, known commercially as the SIG P229.

I stopped reading right there.

While I kinda’ maybe sorta see the benefit of a replaceable back strap, I’ve never understood the need for this kind of full boat “chassis system” in a military environment. Because you’re never going to mix magazine sizes, except in the most extraordinary circumstances, you’re always restricted to one length of grip. With the military’s well documented lack of regard for handguns, why have a full size pistol at all? Given the ability to stick a 15 round mag in a pistol the size of a Glock 19, wouldn’t it have made more sense to just go with something that size with a replaceable back strap? Seeing these pictures, if they are what they are said to be, I feel even stronger about it now.

What amazing wankery.

Not that I've ever been in the service, but has there ever been a time the troops were issued a new firearm that they didn't tear it down and monkeyfuck with it to a fare-thee-well? I always assumed that having the armorers driven into frothing madness for a year or so was just part of the cost of issuing a new model.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

The Compact M18 features a 3.9″ barrel and will replace the M11, known commercially as the SIG P229.

I stopped reading right there.

I'm guessing that was a typo. The linked article clearly says 'P228' in the same quoted sentence.

Personally I'm not getting the point of these anti-tamper measures. Having never served, am I to assume that the armorer is the only one that's supposed to detail strip and clean these weapons when that day comes? One of the purposes of a striker is to allow for ease of maintenance. Don't soldiers care for and clean their own rifles? Puzzled, I am.

It's a nice bronzey, golden-ish finish.

SIG is making a killing on all those grip frames. Dolla-Dolla-Billz.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
What amazing wankery.

I'm totally not surprised with the anti-tamper device and the ambi safety. You have to understand that they are dumbing these pistols down for troops who aren't gun people like you and I.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
It's a nice bronzey, golden-ish finish.

SIG is making a killing on all those grip frames. Dolla-Dolla-Billz.

Not really, they are only charging the Army a bit over $200 per gun.

I'm fine with the striker anti-tamper device, but the grip module one is dumb. Removing the grip and FCU looks to be way easier than field stripping an M9 or M4 and both of those are soldier level tasks.

Given how M16s were cleaned back in the day I would imagine taking out the FCU and soaking it whole would be the easiest way to clean the P320. I suppose a spring could get knocked off or something. Heck they could soak the whole lower in cleaner grip and all and brush it out.

The reason for the anti tampering screws is at the operator maintenance level you are not authorized to disassemble the trigger group, or remove the striker. It's just that simple.

In the Army Joe looses stuff. You want to keep Joe, or Jane, from loosing stuff? This is how it's done. It also cuts way down on theft, which is a big issue in and of itself. I can't even begin to explain how stuff goes missing. I knew one Joe who 'lost' about 75% of his basic issue of TA-50 over the course of six years.

In addition to the above, if you let Joe swap shit out he/she will fuck shit up. I saw this first hand as an armorer. Believe it or not this is the best way to handle the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by sleepla8er:
I can't imagine the amount of storage that will be needed just for the unused Grip Modules that ship with every pistol.

This is the army... They're literally more likely to just throw them out (or steal then and sell them online) than store them.

Talk about stealing stuff, somebody already "removed" the 17 round mag out of the top full size gun...

Well that might be the stupidest thing I've ever seen on a service firearm! What's the sense in having a modular pistol if you're not going to be able to utilize the modular features?

Like mentioned earlier, the easiest way to clean the FCU is going to be remove it from the frame. Needing an armorer with a special tool to take down a weapon for cleaning is ridiculous.

Speaking of needing a special tool; just how special do you think it's going to be? Joe will have that figured out in no time, probably before the guns even show up to the unit. Heck, the armorer will probably be the first one making/buying one as he'll lose it just as fast as a Joe, if he even gets the thing in the first place.

https://www.amazon.com/33-Piec...rs-convert-amazon-20

Having a special tool to remove the striker; unnecessary. How many field reports of missing firing pins do we have from M9's? I've been in the service for 26+ years, deployed multiple times and haven't seen it happen, nor have I heard of it. I'm sure someone will have "A" story of one that was lost, though it was probably lost with the whole damn pistol wrapped around it LOL

I'm sure this seemed like a great idea to whomever was on the selecting committee, but like most decisions made in a vacuum they overthought the thing. Small arms are meant to be disassembled without the need for special tools, period. Hopefully, as mentioned this will be replaced with normal parts, so as we taxpayer’s won't have to pay a couple of million bucks to refit all these pretty new pistols

"Tamper proof" has no meaning to the average American soldier. If he wants to disassemble the pistol, he'll easily figure out a way.

Reminds me of Torx screw heads. Originally designed to be "tamper proof". Then everybody had a set of Torx head bits or wrenches. So they then designed a super tamper proof head, which meant the drivers were just harder to find.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

No chance of people using a fork, none whatsoever.

They make a tool to disassemble it...like folks won't find or get access to tool or just make one.