I just installed the new trigger bar and flat faced trigger on my Vtac. Had it sitting around for a while but wanted to get about 1500 rounds through the factory setup.

Haven't made it to the range yet, but the Apex unit is a significant improvement over a very lackluster trigger. Lots of pre-travel removed, break isn't as mushy and the reset is improved (i.e. you don't have to let it out quite as far). Reset is still not very positive or forceful, but it is an improvement.

I'll hit the range on Monday to confirm, but I'd say this product is a win. I've been disappointed with the "upgraded" trigger (more like a steep downgrade), but the Apex definitely seems to be an improvement and not too painful on the wallet.

Simple to install...except that spring. What horrible human designed that spring??

I’ve put the Apex Trigger bar with the Grayguns flat trigger on several 320s. Improves take up, reset and overall feel.

I’ve got nearly 10k through one. I opted to go with the factory curved trigger as opposed to the flat. Try as I may, I just like the curved better and did not try to trade out the flat that came with the gun for an Apex curved.

@ Oat action...how do you like your VTAC 320? I’ve got an X Compact and two other 320’s, but the VTAC is scratching me where I itch.

Apex Enhanced in my P320C RX is really nice. Because of the vertical break, it seems to pull lighter even though my trigger gauge says no.

I put an apex forward advanced trigger and trigger drawbar kit in a P320 a couple of days ago. I really like it.

Alongside the grayguns P320 flat trigger, I like the grayguns trigger a bit better, and I've ordered a few factory flats for comparison, which should be here next week some time.

I don't know of grayguns approves use of an apex trigger bar with the grayguns trigger, but I'd be carful doing that. I suspect that if grayguns had felt a need for a different trigger bar, they'd have sold their trigger or designed it for use with their own proprietary bar. I suspect their design criteria was fairly exacting, and without being privy to the details, I'd go with just what they ship, instead of playing mix and match. That's just me, though.

As an aside, when I called Overwatch Precision about putting their product in several of my pistols, I went to their facility, met with one of the designers and owners, and was allowed to handle and see the products. Personal, first-hand service that was the extra mile.

When I called Apex about doing the same, I was told absolutely not, under no circumstance, go buy one and try it out. They were nice about it, but not side by side with Precision Overwatch, I'd go with the precision product in a heartbeat, if they made a P320 trigger, simply for their willingness to share. Apex simply said "we have proprietary things here and you can't see them." So did Precision Overwatch, and they were transparent, inviting, and accommodating. It matters.

That said, I bought the apex trigger and tried it, and I do like it. I'll buy more.

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
@ Oat action...how do you like your VTAC 320? I’ve got an X Compact and two other 320’s, but the VTAC is scratching me where I itch.

Overall, I like it and it had a decent combination of features I was looking for over a regular 320 full size.

I like the grip, the slide tweaks are aesthetically pleasing and it is quite an accurate gun.

The Vtac sights are fine, but they took a lot of getting used to. I appreciate the concept, but I think the sight picture ends up too cluttered and, frankly, if you try to align either the FO or the NS dots, you're off target. So having to always check "equal height, equal light" sort of defeats the purpose of a 3 dot system, especially FO, IMO.

The trigger is my only real gripe. I only have 2 320s, one pre-upgrade and one post. The trigger on the Vtac is far inferior to my un-upgraded 320, especially in reset. Also more slack in the takeup; break is fine (still feels better than a Glock). I'm not sure if that's a bad sample or if that's an "upgrade" thing. The factory trigger shoe itself feels chintzy when you put it side by side with the Apex.

I installed the Apex Forward Trigger Bar & flat-faced trigger on my P320 Carry last Friday. Dry firing it, I noted that there seemed to be improvement, albeit small, in the point up to where the shot breaks. I noted nothing spectacular in the reset. I intended to utilize the curved trigger but at the urging of a friend whose opinion I trust, I opted for the flat-faced trigger.

This morning I had the opportunity to try out the Sig P320/Apex system. I held my shots, (34), within an 8" circle at 25 yards. Now I'm impressed.

HTH.

I installed several Sig flat triggers on P320's this morning. Presently, side by side, I have the Sig factory flat trigger, the Apex trigger alone, the Apex advanced forward trigger with the trigger draw bar kit, and a grayguns trigger. I also have the factory curved trigger for comparison.

The obvious comparison is the factory curved vs. the factory flat trigger. While I think the P320 has a great trigger as it comes from Sig, I think the flat trigger is an improvement. That may be just personal taste, but I like the feel, and the way the trigger stroke is a short, linear motion. The factory flat trigger has a short reset, almost no overtravel, and stops with the forward face vertical (90 degree point).

It's said that the flat trigger puts the finger at the bottom of the trigger to give it more leverage, altering the feel of the trigger to make it feel lighter. I suppose it does; I haven't put a trigger pull gauge on it. I think the issue of trigger weight is less important than trigger consistency and feel (a heavy smooth trigger is better than a light but gritty one, etc).

I'm not a trigger expert, so my thoughts are limited to my own preference.

The Apex trigger alone is a bit mushy, does it's job, but is't great. With the kit and the overtravel bar it's tighter (less play), and has no overtravel. I like the feel and function of the trigger. I shot with it last night in a steel match and to me it has a short travel, it's stageable for the duration of that travel, not a lot of resistance at the break, no overtravel, and a perceptibe, but short reset. It functioned well. (Unfortunately, I had a record number of failures to extract on factory ammunition, which I'm still trying to figure out...making what would have otherwise been good times, slower than soap).

I think, or felt, like I was able to run a bit faster with the apex and the x-compact grip, but maybe not. I was more consistent with hits, which may have been why I was moving faster. I can't say the trigger had anything to do with that, but I think it may have helped.

The grayguns trigger is similar in feel to the factory trigger. To me it feels like the takeup may be a bit longer, and mine is a bit gritty. I doubt it's the trigger causing that (I don't see how it possibly could be), so most likely somewhere else in the FCU. It may be a pin protruding enough to drag on the trigger or bar, or somewhere else. When I have the time, I'll dig for it. I like the grayguns trigger. It's in a grayguns frame to keep things together. It may be my imagination, but the factory trigger feels like it has a shorter reset. I don't see how that could be so, mechanically, but I'm neither an engineer nor gunsmith, and my view is decidedly amateur.

I don't know if it matters or not, but both the apex and grayguns trigger leaves a small gap forward of the trigger, where it passes through the grip frame. The sig factory trigger has a small metal shelf that fills that gap.

To me, the apex trigger with kit feels best, but I say that as a guy that owns a gun, rather than a competitive shooter with a finely tuned sense of what's-what. For the cost, the factory trigger is very good, and the least expensive. In turn, the grayguns trigger is next least expensive, with the apex being most expensive (when installed with the kit. If the grayguns trigger is bought with all the springs and parts, its considerably more, but I'm not really qualified or in a position to judge that.

Regarding "upgrades" (really a non-mandatory recall with a more appealing spin on the title), I just sent my last P320 off for upgrade. Comparing it to the "upgraded" P320's, I now see a clear improvement with the post "upgrade" sigs. I say "upgrade" in quotation marks becuase it still irks me that sig calls it that, as if it's a benefit they kindly offer the customer...when it's really something they knew about and should have taken care of long before. They simply didn't want to call it a "recall."

On that note, Sig is no longer taking online claims for the upgrade; the process has died off to a trickle and now orders must be made over the phone. Also, apparently the FCU in my cubcompact came from an RX. As I don't have an RX, it was a mix-and match from another pistol, apparently, and the Sig representative told me it would be viewed "with suspicion" when arriving at Sig because it's not in the original gun. I asked him what the point is of having a modular firearm if its expected to be kept in one firearm, and he said again that Sig woiuld view it with suspicion when it arrived for the "upgrade." Little things like that are the friction that makes a transaction gritty, and it annoys me.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Also, apparently the FCU in my cubcompact came from an RX. As I don't have an RX, it was a mix-and match from another pistol, apparently, and the Sig representative told me it would be viewed "with suspicion" when arriving at Sig because it's not in the original gun. I asked him what the point is of having a modular firearm if its expected to be kept in one firearm, and he said again that Sig woiuld view it with suspicion when it arrived for the "upgrade."

A pistol specifically designed and heavily marketed as being modular, where the owner is then viewed with skepticism by the company when they exercise said modularity.

Right.



I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say the most likely explanation is that specific CS rep is a moron.

But on the off chance that is actually true, then Sig would have to be ate up with morons.

I don't know if the owner is viewed with skepticism, but the part would be viewed "with suspicion," I was told. I was asked if I bought it used, and what happened to the rest of the pistol. I did buy it used, I have no idea what it was in or where the various components went. I may have bought this FCU here on Sig Forum actually, and the subcompact grip frame, and upper assembly at a local gun shop...but whatever the case, it's an assembled P320 pistol now, and the only part that has a serial number is the FCU...which is really the pistol.

When I bought my first legion, used, I enquired with Sig about being a "legion member," which doesn't matter much to me, except possibly to view or purchase certain sig items online. I was told that the "privilege" was extended only to original purchasers and as the owner of a second-hand legion, I did not qualify. After I bought my second legion, used, I was told I could be a member, but I wasn't entitled to a coin, as that was a privilege reserved for original purchasers, or the coin could be passed along from the original purchasers. I couldn't give a shit about an aluminum coin or the privilege or prestige. Sigs response left a bad taste in my mouth. Even used, they're not cheap firearms.

A few years ago when Sig came out with the 224 and 227, I attended a "Sig day" at a local range, where two factory representatives offered the new models to try on the range. I liked them, but the 224 jammed repeatedly. Dry as a bone. Zero lube. I pointed it out to the sig reps, and they mumbled something about "yeah, I guess we should have greased it." It's little contact points like that, like this last interaction, that leave that bad taste.

I've placed several large orders with Sig, which never showed. When I enquired, I was told that the orders had been cancelled, because "your order was flagged as fraud." When I asked why, I was told that it's "not normal" to make a large purchase or buy bulk for magazines or the various things I was ordering, and Sig assumed it was a fraudulent order and cancelled it without saying.

I've never had such issues with any other manufacturer. Ever. I've had a few who have done boneheaded things (Kahr and Keltec lost my pistols...Kahr lost it for nine months), but not to the order of Sig. I'd like to think these are isolated, but the more it happens, the more I wonder.