quote:

Originally posted by HCM:

I have seen it too many times. Car /truck guns are THE number one source of crime guns in my experience. Full time car / truck guns are lazy, irresponsible and make gun owners look bad.

Boy, I sure would love to see some real facts and statistics that back up such a strong statement. For example, what percentage of guns illegally owned by felons are obtained from:

Smuggled in just like illegal drugs
Stolen from a gun store or pawn shop
Stolen from a home
Stolen from unlocked cars
Stolen from locked cars
Stolen from locked cars with the gun in a locked glovebox


I've talked to many LEO's about this, and the number of guns stolen from locked cars with the gun in a locked glovebox is exceedingly low compared to other means. As in, NONE of the LEO's had actually logged a case of this happening. By contrast several had logged cases of theft from gun stores, pawn shops, unlocked cars, and/or from locked cars where the gun was irresponsibly left in plain view.

If I remember right I believe that jljones also weighed in with very similar experiences.

According to the DOJ about 225,000 firearms are stolen on average each year. The biggest number I've seen specific to vehicles shows about 6,000 stolen per year from the 25 largest/highest crime cities.

quote:

I've talked to many LEO's about this, and the number of guns stolen from locked cars with the gun in a locked glovebox is exceedingly low compared to other means. As in, NONE of the LEO's had actually logged a case of this happening.

Some lazy thieves they must be logging there...

I know for a fact that there's at least one miscreant that could've easily stolen a gun had I actually left one in my car's locked glove box when he broke into that car. The lock on that box door might've slowed him down by 3-5 seconds at best, cheesy as the mechanism was.

Many glove boxes and locking center consoles are easy to pop open. There's usually nothing of substance to the lock mechanisms that car makers buy and use. They depend on factory alarms to dissuade the car prowler, yet the ordinary citizenry have now been conditioned to ignore and blow off such klaxons as 'just another false alarm'. For the experienced thief it takes mere seconds to get into glove box, regardless of whether it's locked or not.

I don't prescribe to glove box security when it comes to leaving guns in cars. A securely fastened lock box is a bare bones minimum device. Of course that also makes quick retrieval of said firearm more of a challenge, but that's what I live with whenever I'm forced to secure my firearm in my cars.

^^I never stated or implied that a locked glove box was some magical device that was difficult for a determined criminal with tools to get into. Instead I simply relayed experience regarding how often that scenario actually happens according to guys who investigate these crimes every day.

So do you have any stats on thefts from cars vs. other means?

Disclaimer: I understand what I am about to say applies only to me.
When I worked someplace that prohibited firearms, I immediately realized that's where I would probably need one. I then went deep concealed and kept my mouth shut about it. My gun was on me, not in the parking lot. Of course, I did not have to pass through a metal detector or be frisked. No truck guns for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
^^I never stated or implied that a locked glove box was some magical device that was difficult for a determined criminal with tools to get into. Instead I simply relayed experience regarding how often that scenario actually happens according to guys who investigate these crimes every day.

So do you have any stats on thefts from cars vs. other means?

No, I'm not in law enforcement. I patterned my beliefs on what actually happened to ME.

It's also funny that you used the term 'investigate'. Around here most departments rarely if ever actually 'investigate' a car prowl. They just log the called-in report from the victimized and keeps statistics to chart where the break-ins happen with the notion that they'll eventually increase patrols in those areas, if budgetary constraints allow of course. I have a friend who parks on an industrial street every day when she's at work, and every day there's more busted automotive glass from someone breaking into another car or three. Yet the area apparently has a heavy police presence because of Seattle's homeless situation. Are you going to tell me that you would feel comfortable leaving an unattended gun (lockbox or not) inside a car in that situation?

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
No, I'm not in law enforcement. I patterned my beliefs on what actually happened to ME.

It's also funny that you used the term 'investigate'. Around here most departments rarely if ever actually 'investigate' a car prowl. They just log the called-in report from the victimized and keeps statistics to chart where the break-ins happen with the notion that they'll eventually increase patrols in those areas, if budgetary constraints allow of course. I have a friend who parks on an industrial street every day when she's at work, and every day there's more busted automotive glass from someone breaking into another car or three. Yet the area apparently has a heavy police presence because of Seattle's homeless situation. Are you going to tell me that you would feel comfortable leaving an unattended gun (lockbox or not) inside a car in that situation?

Oh I love this game. The one where we drill down into silly scenarios to try and prove a point against a position the other person never even took. How about this one. Are you going to tell me that it is NEVER ok under ANY situation to leave any gun in any locked car?

See how silly that sounds?

For the record, I simply asked a question about actual facts/statistics.

This is clearly a very emotional topic for some people, to the point where they are calling others lazy and irresponsible without knowing a thing about their specific situations. So instead, maybe some actual numbers to understand the real risks of certain scenarios would be useful, right? I’ve never found anything more solid than what I have already posted so I would love to see some compelling data either way.

quote:

Full time car / truck guns are lazy, irresponsible and make gun owners look bad.

I sure have some trouble with that one. First It's tough carrying a rifle on my person while driving, but I need one on a regular basis while I'm in my truck. So your solution is WHAT?
Name another area where its irresponsible to act in a legal way and when subject to a crime its your fault. You feel that way about a gun in your home that's available. I have one of those too since sometimes wildlife are with my farm animals and I need to grab something and go deal with it. So that's irresponsible too? Heck what if they steal my car. I'm responsible for that too?
Now if I lived in an area where car break-ins where a regular occurrence I might add another layer of security to the puzzle but I don't. And for sure I have some responsibility if I left the truck unlocked.
But overall your comment (since its Battle of Bastogne time) is nuts.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

I won't get into the stats game, but in my neck of the woods, our auto theft problem is off the hook, as are car break ins. I'd say, and I'm guessing based on responding to these incidents but not keeping stats, that one in ten cars is stolen with a weapons in it. Just today, in the limited few hours I was out on the road, I'm aware of one vehicle stolen with a gun in it and another that was found recovered with a gun not belonging to the original owner in it (left behind by the thieves...). Personally, a family member had their gun stolen from their vehicle at 1pm parked at a school graduation event, simply because it was a school event NOT ON SCHOOL GROUNDS, so their CCH license didn't allow them to bring it inside. Negligence was chosen over illegal, resulting in a lawfully owned gun now being in a criminals hand. I know this thread got a bit off track, but to the point, I'd say the rate of stolen guns from or inside cars/stolen cars is higher than most would imagine.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
^^I never stated or implied that a locked glove box was some magical device that was difficult for a determined criminal with tools to get into. Instead I simply relayed experience regarding how often that scenario actually happens according to guys who investigate these crimes every day.

So do you have any stats on thefts from cars vs. other means?

This makes no sense to me. First the motor vehicle theft rate has been dropping for a couple of decades. Second Alaska (if that's real in your profile) isn't anywhere near the top 10. Third the US rate is 7.34 which means you know about 1900 cars stolen in AL. in total. so with about a million cars in Alaska that would mean the chances of it being stolen are somewhere in the range of less than .2%. So if only 1 in 10 of those have a weapon we are talking about .02% of vehicles. That's not really meaningful statistically. So you have what might be called a local crime spree but not a state wide or national issue. FWIW>>

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
This makes no sense to me. First the motor vehicle theft rate has been dropping for a couple of decades. Second Alaska (if that's real in your profile) isn't anywhere near the top 10. Third the US rate is 7.34 which means you know about 1900 cars stolen in AL. in total. so with about a million cars in Alaska that would mean the chances of it being stolen are somewhere in the range of less than .2%. So if only 1 in 10 of those have a weapon we are talking about .02% of vehicles. That's not really meaningful statistically. So you have what might be called a local crime spree but not a state wide or national issue. FWIW>>

Ok - I'm just calling it like it is here in Anchorage. I'm not saying have more cars stolen than Los Angeles or other huge cities, but for our size (around 300K population), it's off the hook. Our rates almost doubled in 2016 (73% increase) of over 2100 auto thefts in Anchorage alone. It's been on the steady rise ever since too.
https://www.ktuu.com/content/n...-2016-410703315.html

There's plenty of other studies showing the increase in all crime - heck our homicides doubled each year for the past few and they aren't slowing down either - anyway, just saying it like it is here.


Everyone can make their own decisions about "truck guns". I was just stating my personal opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Disclaimer: I understand what I am about to say applies only to me.
When I worked someplace that prohibited firearms, I immediately realized that's where I would probably need one. I then went deep concealed and kept my mouth shut about it. My gun was on me, not in the parking lot. Of course, I did not have to pass through a metal detector or be frisked. No truck guns for me.

^^^this. I know that most people in my shop keep their guns in their cars while working, and have a false sense of security. These dummy’s actually think that if something happens that they will run like the flash out to the parking lot and either leave or retrieve their gun and stop the threat... and of coarse you can’t tell them that they are wrong about the reality of what would most likely really happen. So just conceal in a way that you won’t get caught and say NOTHING to nobody no matter how much you think you can trust them and you’ll be fine

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Disclaimer: I understand what I am about to say applies only to me.
When I worked someplace that prohibited firearms, I immediately realized that's where I would probably need one. I then went deep concealed and kept my mouth shut about it. My gun was on me, not in the parking lot. Of course, I did not have to pass through a metal detector or be frisked. No truck guns for me.

^^^this. I know that most people in my shop keep their guns in their cars while working, and have a false sense of security. These dummy’s actually think that if something happens that they will run like the flash out to the parking lot and either leave or retrieve their gun and stop the threat... and of coarse you can’t tell them that they are wrong about the reality of what would most likely really happen. So just conceal in a way that you won’t get caught and say NOTHING to nobody no matter how much you think you can trust them and you’ll be fine

Hard to do when you basically wear paper thin pajamas to work. Not to mention that’s itsbnot just company policy hit illegal to do so in my state.

I’d do what Yooper said, or if it was a hospital and a policy violation, I’d put a revolver in a backpack or lunch bucket and shut my mouth about it....if it was illegal to bring it to the hospital, I’d put a hammer in the work locker...or backpack..I’m sorry, I’m just not being w/o a weapon of some kind...because when it happens it will be so fast you won’t have time to go get a gun.

Mossberg Shockwave in 20g. Do your best to lock in something. Bag of shells stored as well.

I can understand about wanting to have a pistol for defense when you can't carry something on you and have to leave it in your car. If I was going to do that, I would get something small, 380 size, LCP maybe and find a good hiding spot in your vehicle for it or install a small safe.

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
LEO trade in Glock 22. I’ve seen them for less than $300

I agree. Since you want a 40, a police trade in Glock would be my first choice. Affordable and dependable.

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I cannot due to to the threat of jail time, carry a firearm in my place of work. My only choice is leaving it in locked in my vehicle.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jaybirdaccountant,

police trade-in Glock.

Assuming you added a safe/vault of some kind, I would go:

- LEO trade-in 229 (~$400)
- LEO trade-in GLOCK 23 (~$300)
- LEO trade-in GLOCK 22 (~$239, https://www.gtdist.com/used-gu...gen-2-40-pistol.html)

I'm biased towards Gen 3 GLOCK 23 because I see it as a good all-around pistol (like the 686 CS-1 it replaced for most agencies).

The GLOCK 23 is capable enough to be a full-size duty pistol and still small enough for a CCW and can be found inexpensively compared to a similarly used/trade-in GLOCK 19.

Add a Raven Vanguard trigger cover and you've got a nice package for the car/truck.

(If you can't find a GLOCK 23 at a reasonable price and the GLOCK 22 is out of stock at GT, the Taurus G2C is surprisingly good for its price point and would also make a nice truck gun.)

I suggest a Sig P210, that way you will secure it just fine.

I keep a g19 in my truck. Lately I’ve added an AR pistol.