quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
Has anybody left one loaded in a secure box and Waited to see how long until it goes off by itself ? Just check daily it for weeks /days / months ? Is it only happened with 9mm has it happened with a 40/357 conversion or a 45/10 size frame ?

It hasn't lived in a box because it's regularly getting carried, but I've had a 9mm version continuously loaded (when it's not actively being shot or cleaned) since 2017. So far it has only fired when the trigger gets pulled.

Potential Mechanical issues aside. Wow SiG is getting savaged for this press release. Me thinks somebody in legal and in marketing have some ‘splain’n to do.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
Potential Mechanical issues aside. Wow SiG is getting savaged for this press release. Me thinks somebody in legal and in marketing have some ‘splain’n to do.

Yep, the social media response has been brutal.

It seems a simple fix to this is to offer a thumb safety modification to ALL sig 320s. Eould it be expensive for sig....perhaps but less so than all the negative publicity. Offer it as optional, up to the consumer

quote:

Originally posted by badguybuster:
It seems a simple fix to this is to offer a thumb safety modification to ALL sig 320s. Eould it be expensive for sig....perhaps but less so than all the negative publicity. Offer it as optional, up to the consumer

That's only a fix if the thumb safety solves the problem. At this point nobody can conform what the problem is, or even if there is one. There are documented incidents with M18s and M17s...those both have manual safeties.

Back in 2014, and maybe into 2015, wasn’t it also available with a trigger safety à la Glock?
Fair to assume not many of them sold? At least it would’ve prevented the drop safety issues that followed soon after.

^^^ I don't recall the P320 ever had the trigger safety like Glock.

quote:

Originally posted by FrankMoses:
Back in 2014, and maybe into 2015, wasn’t it also available with a trigger safety à la Glock?
Fair to assume not many of them sold? At least it would’ve prevented the drop safety issues that followed soon after.

IIRC some of the pre production guns or pre production marketing lit. had guns with a “dingus trigger”. I never saw one in the wild.

“ The P320 trigger is available in standard (solid) and tabbed (with trigger safety) [3]”
I did a Google search for “P320 reviews 2014 2015”. That’s a sentence out of one of the reviews. I guess I could copy paste the whole thing here if you wanted to see it live, but trust me it was there.
I never saw one either, but it was for a while an option.

So, none were ever seen in the wild?

Not by the 3 of us

I texted a gun owner buddy of mine who thinks he remembers he might have seen one very early in the run.

Bet SIG are kicking their own collective ass right now for not having gone the Glock direction. Lol.

Yep. This strikes me as another Remington 700 safety issue, the one that Mike Walker designed, but said he could fix, and Remington wanted no part of admitting anything.

A few points. The P320 versions, with a manual safety. The safety only blocks the trigger movement. If other parts are failing, it won’t stop the gun from firing.

The manual safety on the P365, designed after the P320, actually blocks the sear from moving. I can’t help but think an engineer caught that.

The fact that the sear and striker have very precise engagement surfaces lets it have a good trigger. The problem is, they are in separate parts of the gun. Slides have vertical and horizontal movement. Is it enough to lift the striker off the sear? Don’t know. Does it get worse as the gun wears? Possibly. On, for example, a 1911, both the striker (hammer) and sear are held rigidly in place by an inflexible metal housing. The frame.

Another point. On the street, one doesn’t always have time to visually and physically feel around inside the holster and then carefully look down while gently guiding the gun back in.

So, in practical terms, that’s not an optimal design for a duty gun. A manual safety, would alleviate that concern. A longer heavier trigger, would help mitigate it.

As I said once the drop tests came out and their voluntary upgrades begun, I'd have respected them more for just saying "yep, good catch" and fixing it. Theres just too many examples including video to show it happening. I was skeptical at first but I think its real. Everyone rolls a lemon out over a long enough timeline. People get that but pretending it didnt happen is unacceptable.

I think some of the claims that the 320 “just goes off” are specious at best. Notice it only happens to cops? The special needs children of the gun community?

With that being said-

SIG just can’t help not stepping on their dicks. They have high turnover in a lot of spaces to include marketing. They could be printing money hand over fist right now. Instead, they post a unabomber manifesto that makes them appear they hired the DEI Biden communications team. It wouldn’t have been any worse if they signed it “Corn Pop”. I expect any minute they’ll name Peter Griffin as executive vice president. Jesus.

SIG used to have relationships with gun forums, this one included, but with the rise of social media, they felt they had a more direct voice to gun buyers by using Instagram and the like, as well as being able to "control the narrative" as the saying goes. Such connections strike me as shallow and sterile in comparison to discussion forums such as this, but, they reach a lot of people in venues like that, so...

This forum would be a safe haven for SIG-Sauer's representatives to talk to and not at gun buyers. Unlike many forums, trolls would not be allowed to overwhelm the dialogue, but it's perhaps not even worth mentioning, since SIG has been so assailed by litigation, they could not even consider a back-and-forth with the public on this matter. The fact that they have gotten to the point where a raft of lawyers parse every single word the company now utters on the perceived deficiencies of the P320 makes it all the more puzzling that SIG-Sauer management approved this emotional and, frankly, meaningless statement that "this ends today".

We're not in a Hollywood movie. SIG cannot answer lawsuits with "It's over, the question is settled." It just doesn't work that way, so, this is all quite puzzling. The truth is that nothing is settled.

It's almost as if the grand success of the P320 demanded that this controversy must exist; sort of a karmic balancing of the scales.

I actually sat all the way through this one a few weeks back. Like many of you, I thought this was all a bunch of nonsense and careless gun handling. I'm not convinced of that anymore. The video also addresses some of the reasons why this isn't really an issue with the P365, as multiple people in this thread have mused about.

I suspect that SIG's statement may have been in response to this:

WA police academy bans Sig Sauer after reports it could fire by itself

This story definitely made the evening news here in WA, especially given how hostile local government is towards guns in general.

The idea that a law enforcement entity is now very publicly prohibiting the use of the P320 certainly isn't a good look for their current business model. Other agencies and states might even start doing the same thing given the preponderance of "unintended" discharge incidents, regardless of whether the surrounding circumstances of these 'self' (induced)-firing are merely hearsay or actual fact.

That SIG issued this rebuttal statement of theirs a couple of days after this agency's ban is NOT coincidence in my mind. This is SIG's management, legal and marketing team trying their damn best to keep the bad juju from spreading any farther.

It also seems to me that SIG hasn't won every one of these litigation cases that have been brought against them like they appear to be claiming in their social media release. Last year they lost two such cases, one brought by a former Army vet and another brought by a Georgia man who had claimed that he was shot by his P320 while it was unhandled and in its holster.

Case 1

Case 2

Moreover, earlier such claims against SIG may never have seen the inside of an actual courtroom. How many of these cases were settled by SIG so that they never would see a jury or trial judge is likely something that we will never know.