I was taught to strip the empty magazine out before reaching for the new magazine. Did it that way for ten years. Worked well for me.

My current agency teaches to drop the mag with the mag release, while reaching for the new mag. That works splendidly, until your mag doesn’t drop. Then you’re tugging on it with a fresh mag occupying your monkey paw.

The LT doing training yesterday was drilling this into us, talking about the fraction of a second extra it takes to rip it out first. Called it straight up wrong. Left no confusion.



Later on we had a speed competition...

My mag stuck.

I got the slowest time of the 20 in my group.

I’m still a fan of ripping the mag out first.

What’s yous guys method? How about the low drag high speed instructors we have?

Drop with the mag release here.

I drop (and hope it falls). I'm not in your line of work, so the consequences of a stuck mag are not as significant.

One could train to please the instructor and operate to preserve one's life.

I was taught strip the mag.

Then later in life, we were taught to drop the mag and use the hand with the fresh to help strip the old one out if it sticks.

Does it matter which gun you use?

I have noticed over the years some guns / manufacturers are way more prone to 'mag retention' than others when depressing the mag catch. Others eject the mags more decisively.

Glocks for instance seem to 'retain' their mags ie. not drop free as smartly as Sig classics or Berettas for instance.

Maybe you LT is teaching what works best with that particular handgun manufacturer???

The other thing I have seen when working with folks in that line of work - 'trainer' -- they see so much of what works / what doesn't -- success / failure -- they can become very opinionated.

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Not in the line of duty here, but my thoughts are to go with the odds. If your mag normally falls free, reach for your new mag as you're hitting the mag release. In the unlikely event it doesn't fall free, change course with the support hand, or continue to grab new mag and strip old mag with new mag in hand.

I would not always take the extra time to grab the old mag if it's a once in a blue moon occurrence. I say "grab" as I don't quite understand how you "strip" a mag that is free falling.

I think that part of my preference, after speaking with one of the SWAT guys on my unit, is that I cannot reach the mag release without turning the gun in my hand. I have small hands, and with a full sized gun (M&P)in order to press the mag release I have to rotate the gun in my hand so the barrel is pointed more leftward.

If I use my support hand to pull away the used mag, I can also support the gun in the moment that my support hand grabs the mag to rotate it and hit the release.

If I do not, I have to use the inertia of the gun to spin it in my hand. Under immense stress or wet conditions, this can lead to a poor grip on the gun. Once yesterday I almost lost my grip on it during a reload doing it this way.

I do not have a problem using a large gun. I shoot well,for a cop, and have carrier bigger guns (USP .45), but I have to do it the way that works for me.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
I say "grab" as I don't quite understand how you "strip" a mag that is free falling.

The technique is to drop your support hand straight down off the front of your grip as you are pressing the mag release with your strong thumb. The fingers of your support hand will catch the toe of the ejecting magazine to pull it clear of the frame.

Those of us who have carried pistols with heel releases learned to do this automatically...except for P7 users, who used a milking action...as the support thumb pushed the release to the rear.

The technique is also useful to understand/practice if you ever have a Type 3 stoppage (double feed)

I have an additional complication of short fingers so I use my left hand thumb to press the mag release. I could just slide the left hand down from there to grab and clear the mag but usually it's dropped out by then.

Side but related question:

In both LE encounters and private citizen encounters (as the rates may be different), what percentage of reloads occur while exposed versus under cover/concealment? Maybe quartile level estimates? High percentage of exposed reloads for both parties? Or low?

I always taught my rookies to do what I ask during training...then do what works for you when you're on your own. You'll know both techniques.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
My current agency teaches to drop the mag with the mag release, while reaching for the new mag. That works splendidly, until your mag doesn’t drop. Then you’re tugging on it with a fresh mag occupying your monkey paw.

Shouldn't.

Just catch the stuck mag between your middle and ring fingers, roll the mag and finger together, to pull it free...like you would if performing a Tactical Reload (Reload w/Retention).

quote:

What’s yous guys method?

Having carried a 1911 as a duty gun for a while, I used to use the 1911 Mag Flick/Flip to dislodge the magazine. After pressing the mag release, you sharply flick the butt of the pistol outward and then back to receive the incoming fresh mag. A lot of older shooters still do this even with modern guns.

With modern pistols using steel bodied magazines, I just press the release and expect the magazines to drop. If one doesn't, I'll either flick it out is I notice early or I'll roll it out with my support hand fingers before inserting the incoming fresh mag

quote:

I have to use the inertia of the gun to spin it in my hand

Something else from the old 1911 days.

Use your lower fingers to push the frame around. Just curl them slightly and roll them toward the thumb

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
I say "grab" as I don't quite understand how you "strip" a mag that is free falling.

The technique is to drop your support hand straight down off the front of your grip as you are pressing the mag release with your strong thumb. The fingers of your support hand will catch the toe of the ejecting magazine to pull it clear of the frame.

Those of us who have carried pistols with heel releases learned to do this automatically...except for P7 users, who used a milking action...as the support thumb pushed the release to the rear.

The technique is also useful to understand/practice if you ever have a Type 3 stoppage (double feed)

I understand stripping a mag that is stuck, and I understand the heel mag release-my first auto was a Browning BDA. But with guns with mags that drop freely I would have to put my support hand on the mag or block the magwell before I hit the mag release, or the mag would be long gone. It didn't seem normal to me, but I understand what y'all are saying.

I'd still question what percentage of the time that is necessary, and does it make sense to have a standard operating procedure to reflect something that rarely happens?

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I have an additional complication of short fingers so I use my left hand thumb to press the mag release. I could just slide the left hand down from there to grab and clear the mag but usually it's dropped out by then.

Side but related question:

In both LE encounters and private citizen encounters (as the rates may be different), what percentage of reloads occur while exposed versus under cover/concealment? Maybe quartile level estimates? High percentage of exposed reloads for both parties? Or low?

I don’t know.

I expect reloads during gunfire are rare. I’d guess annual single digits raw number across the nation. Maybe slightly more.

But I might be completely wrong.

Either or. No wrong way. Just be sure to practice either technique until it becomes reflex.
What ever works best, works best.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Either or. No wrong way. Just be sure to practice either technique until it becomes reflex.
What ever works best, works best.

The mag stripping is well ingrained natural movement.

I’ll continue my way. Just wanted to get a wider opinion.

The mags in my guns all drop with the mag release button..... unless the gun or mag is filthy, and then I do a quick wrist flick to get them out. Pistols are all Sigs ( classic P Series, and P320/P320 X5) so all are metal mag bodies, and some have metal base pads, and that helps. Normal reloads in the 1.0 -1.3 sec range. Until I gackkk one then it is,.. longer.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
I understand stripping a mag that is stuck, and I understand the heel mag release-my first auto was a Browning BDA. But with guns with mags that drop freely I would have to put my support hand on the mag or block the magwell before I hit the mag release, or the mag would be long gone. It didn't seem normal to me, but I understand what y'all are saying.

You're thinking in terms of "catching/grasping" the magazine rather than stripping during a reloads.

If the magazine isn't there when my support hand slides down, it doesn't matter...it doesn't need to be stripped out...my hand just continues to reach for the fresh mag. If it is still there when my hand gets there, I don't grasp it. I catch the forward protruding toe of the base plate with my little finger to fling the spent mag clear...while my hand continues to the fresh mag

quote:

I'd still question what percentage of the time that is necessary, and does it make sense to have a standard operating procedure to reflect something that rarely happens?

If that were the criteria, would we need to practice gun handling at all?

"rarely happens" is a relative term. Collecting data from real life gunfights is not the easiest thing to do, however if you just want to consider data of how often a magazine doesn't fall free when the magazine release is depressed, I'll share my observations in competition and training.

I've attended or taught several classes as well as attended quarterly firearms qualification while in LE. I've seldom see a 1-day qualification without a stuck magazine. I've never gone through a 2-day class and not seen a student experience a stuck magazine during a reload.

I attend weekly action pistol matches (IDPA,USPSA) and have never seen eight stages shot without at least one bobbled magazine change requiring a magazine be stripped out of a gun

Of all the guns I own almost all of them will drop the mag on their own or with a slight shake.....CLEAN. Add some dirt and grime and Murphy’s law and a hang up is not out of the question. I don’t mean STUCK just a little added friction.

The P7M8 is the exception. Once it runs dry you are able to point muzzle to the air and fire the magazine like a projectile at any remaining attackers.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany

quote:

I'd still question what percentage of the time that is necessary, and does it make sense to have a standard operating procedure to reflect something that rarely happens?

If that were the criteria, would we need to practice gun handling at all?

We all draw arbitrary lines on what we think is unlikely/very unlikely/ridiculously unlikely.

It doesn’t make sense to put much time and effort into a skill that falls in the last category. You can’t practice everything, so focus on things that aren’t ridiculously unlikely.