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Originally posted by 12131:

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Originally posted by parabellum:
Because that's still a P226.

Yup, put on some skeletonized hammer, straight trigger, and fancy new grips, and a little reshaping of the trigger guard, and what do you get? A P226, still.

If it didn't say Sig Sauer on it, I would have guessed it was a Rex Zero 1 variant.

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Originally posted by DanH:

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Originally posted by elberettas:
Is it me or does that pistol look used? I wonder why they chose to make the standard capacity 17 instead of 18.

Best guess is they’re using Sig factory magazines instead of using the 18 round MecGars.

Also not sure on the finish. I couldn’t find anything on if they’re still using Nitron or is they’re doing Battleworn Cerekote. I’ve also seen the new STI Staccato lineup with uses DLC looks the same.

Mec-Gar makes both the 17 and 18 round magazines for SIG. I've even heard a few people here express a preference for the 17 rounder. I just can't figure out why.

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Originally posted by elberettas:
Mec-Gar makes both the 17 and 18 round magazines for SIG. I've even heard a few people here express a preference for the 17 rounder. I just can't figure out why.

Mec-Gar makes the 17 and 18 rounders for the P226, yes. But, only the 17 rounders are officially "factory" mags (i.e., they are shipped with the pistols). The 18 rounders are sold aftermarket. The 17 rounder is also used to make the 19-round factory X5 mag by utilizing the plus 2 aluminum base.

The 17 rounder, without the added rubber base pad, is truly flush fit. The 18 rounder sticks out just a little more, due to the polymer base.

You Sir, are a wealth of information. I seem to remember about 10 years ago, SIG had SIG Sauer marked, 18 round magazines on their website. I'm not sure if they ever shipped any with their pistols though. I wonder how rare those magazines are.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
Well, this is what happens when a woman begins to feel her age- let the cosmetic surgery begin.

So, not dead, but the wrinkles are beginning to show, so lots of makeup and elective surgery are called for, yes?

Because that's still a P226.

It seems like the only base Sig Germany has to work from is the Classic pistols. Not that they dont produce some very fine products. I cant see Sig US ever making the same quality, well thought out pistols as the X guns and P210. That P226 above looks like the gun that doesn't know what to be. Some of the mods are pure American ideas. Under cut trigger guard, skeketon parts, bayonet lug. Its just a bit different than what the P226 was. If the Classuc pistols are to be dead @ New Hampshire, so be it. They aren't the same company. They aren't Sig Germany. Some of us will buy other brands.

I’m not sure if it’s “American ideas” going to work over there because Sig Germany seems to be set up more like Tanfoglio in that they’re mostly for competition where you’d find all of those enhancements.

It’ll also be interesting to see how their lineup changes now that they’re making P320s in Germany. I’m wishing that P320 Alpha lower can be found in the US.

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Originally posted by DanH:
Sig Germany just put out a new upgrade to the P226/P229:

The Germans have a long tradition of liking impressive-looking guns, and often to the point that the looks are more important than the function. There are of course a few German competition shooters, but not as many as in the US, and it’s unlikely that a club member would be risking ridicule by bringing out a garishly-colored Master Shop pistol to show to the others and then fire a few rounds. Plus it’s obvious that individuals there aren’t seeking pure utility guns for everyday carry.

The fact that a few examples of such guns get imported—and actually bought—here doesn’t tell us anything about whether they would be commercial successes if they were commonly available rather than rare freaks.

It's all about cost and margin. Glock has been incredibly successful because the cost of manufacture of their pistols is quite low compared to the selling price. Higher margin = more profit on commercial sales. And the low cost of manufacture allows them to cut the price for LE sales to generate volume, driving manufacturing costs lower due to economies of scale.

S&W learned that lesson with the M&P and after a few years, killed the entire TDA Gen 3 line. Browning killed the Hi Power even though it is one of the most prolific military sidearms of the 20th century. Beretta is hanging on with the 92 series, due to the popularity of being a former US military sidearm and it's use in so many movies. CZ is doing well with the the 75 series, but they have the advantage of the lower cost of labor for skilled workers in the Czech Republic, and high volume from military sales, allowing them to keep costs low enough to be competitive on price and margin.

U.S. LE have mostly transitioned to Glock, M&P, and now P320, along with the military. Lower cost, very reliable, high durability, simple manual of arms, and combat accurate.

P-series cost more to make, a lot more. And for the average buyer are not worth twice the price of a polymer framed pistol. It makes sense that Sig is keeping the P-Series in the lineup at a higher price with the Legion series. Except for the finish (I would prefer black/Nitron), the Legions have just about every practical upgrade you might want, and offer greater profitability for Sig. Hopefully they will keep these in the lineup for the indefinite future.

Now that Sig is seeing the same benefits as Glock and S&W M&P from the P320 and the runaway success of the P365, it was only a matter of time before the P-series was relegated to a niche role for enthusiasts, and some LE/Mil agencies that still prefer metal frame TDA pistols.

I'd buy that 226 from the last page. I don't think that anyone that would buy it as their first gun though.

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Originally posted by sigfreund:
The fact that a few examples of such guns get imported—and actually bought—here doesn’t tell us anything about whether they would be commercial successes if they were commonly available rather than rare freaks.

Not entirely. While it will never be a sales success like the P365 or the Glock 19X, we can’t really tell much because new X Series and Mastershop guns have a sticker price in the $4,000 area with an extremely small amount getting to the US. You aren’t going to get a log of takers at that price, and those who are interested are already getting Wilson Combats or 2011s built.

I’m really interested in what pricing Legacy Sports are going to set them at when we’re allowed to start living outside again.

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Originally posted by parabellum:

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Originally posted by Blume9mm:
Still looks a lot better than a Glock to me....

What does that have to do with the subject at hand? If your primary concern is looks, you might as well be a woman.

Some days you just need to get in touch with your feminine side......

then again to get back to the original subject...

I don't want no prissy plastic gun... give me a good cold hard piece of steel in my hand... all these plastic guns are for girly men who can't stand to carry the weight of a real gun....

(I'm really making a joke here by the way.... I've got a number of poly guns... just have to choose sides sometimes and I'm not on the 'Glock' team)

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Originally posted by DanH:

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Originally posted by sigfreund:
The fact that a few examples of such guns get imported—and actually bought—here doesn’t tell us anything about whether they would be commercial successes if they were commonly available rather than rare freaks.

Not entirely. While it will never be a sales success like the P365 or the Glock 19X, we can’t really tell much because new X Series and Mastershop guns have a sticker price in the $4,000 area with an extremely small amount getting to the US. You aren’t going to get a log of takers at that price, and those who are interested are already getting Wilson Combats or 2011s built.

I’m really interested in what pricing Legacy Sports are going to set them at when we’re allowed to start living outside again.

The current X Series guns are way overpriced at 4k. The best fit Sigs are the sport stock era and early Mastershop X-guns from the mid 2000s.

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Originally posted by mbacker_99:
The current X Series guns are way overpriced at 4k...

And, none of them listed at such prices have been moving. These sellers are living in the past, like 3 - 4 years ago. Most of the current X guns can be had at much lower prices at auctions, except when you run into a bidding war.

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Originally posted by 12131:

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Originally posted by mbacker_99:
The current X Series guns are way overpriced at 4k...

And, none of them listed at such prices have been moving. These sellers are living in the past, like 3 - 4 years ago. Most of the current X guns can be had at much lower prices at auctions, except when you run into a bidding war.

Even at the lower auction prices the guns are not worth IMO. Mediocre slide to frame fit, hit or miss barrel fit and don’t get me started on the action work. This was not the case on the earlier guns except for the action work. The German P210s seem to be the exception to this production level of build quality.

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Originally posted by CQB60:
If this pandemic did anything besides panic, it was to separate wheat from chaff at my area gun stores. When the sales dust settled from the melee, seems the only guns remaining on the shelves were classic P series. All the striker Polymers went briskly. Interesting phenomena.

Well, I would have expected that there was a great deal of buying by people who did not already own. Most of us, here (although this is only my second post) already own many guns and I would guess most of us did not go out in a panic to buy another. So isn't possible that those who went out and bought in a panic were mostly neophytes? And wouldn't you expect that these people were also more likely to purchase cheaper handguns? What do you think?

I gave my Sig M11A1 to a pistol-less family member last year and never intended to replace it. But I have an empty space on my pistol rack between my P226 and my P239. And this looked like a pretty good deal so I ordered one.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/sig...__SID=U#.XqVgsGhKguV

I always liked the original P229 slide. And I like the no-rail configuration.

Thats a nice P229 for the price.

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Originally posted by mbacker_99:
Even at the lower auction prices the guns are not worth IMO. Mediocre slide to frame fit, hit or miss barrel fit and don’t get me started on the action work. This was not the case on the earlier guns except for the action work. The German P210s seem to be the exception to this production level of build quality.

My experience with the X guns is different from yours. Whether original (1st gen) or Enhanced (2nd gen), you will run into some guns with fit/finish issues. Same with trigger/action work. But, most are outstanding. So, I'm not going to condemn one series entirely over the other. I like both series, btw.

Regarding the German P210, same thing. Although they are exceptional, you can always find some that makes you think negatively, "Wow, this is a Mastershop's trigger?"

Glad you responded to that Q. I wouldn't think Sig DE would make and ship any pistol which was less than expected from buyers. I suppose it is possible.

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Originally posted by 12131:

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Originally posted by mbacker_99:
Even at the lower auction prices the guns are not worth IMO. Mediocre slide to frame fit, hit or miss barrel fit and don’t get me started on the action work. This was not the case on the earlier guns except for the action work. The German P210s seem to be the exception to this production level of build quality.

My experience with the X guns is different from yours. Whether original (1st gen) or Enhanced (2nd gen), you will run into some guns with fit/finish issues. Same with trigger/action work. But, most are outstanding. So, I'm not going to condemn one series entirely over the other. I like both series, btw.

Regarding the German P210, same thing. Although they are exceptional, you can always find some that makes you think negatively, "Wow, this is a Mastershop's trigger?"

The fitting on early 1st generation 226 X guns, around serial #75XXXX - 76XXXX, is outstanding. The later 1st guns and the enhanced guns are not built to that level. I’ll concede the finishing is better on the later guns.

The trigger work is hit or miss. I have seen some sears with maybe 1/3 contact on the engagement surface.