What's the good & bad ??

From what I gather, it's priced about like .380, so mostly affordable. Ballistically it leaves .380 in the dust. Compares favorably with 9mm albeit with a slightly smaller, lighter bullet & gives about 20% more capacity for the same size.
IMO, it's a fantastic cartridge but lack of different guns to chamber it are holding it back. I don't know if in todays world it can hold on long enough to really catch on.
It nips at the 9mm heels (but will never replace it, nor was it intended to but it can render 380 all but obsolete if given the chance).

IMO:

The bad:

It was introduced in the midst of a panic that the shooting world still hasnt fully recovered from. Now I am one to believe that the release was pre-plotted before the panic occurred. I believe many shooters were angry over this.

It's another pistol round. How many more are needed? I dont know. Then again, why stop innovating?

Its a fairly high PSI load, over 50,000. Compare that to 9mm which comes in around 35,000. As a noob-type handloader, this gives me some concern. I expect an experienced handloader would laugh at my concern.


The good:

Capacity. I still want to see what dedicated guns in .30SC can pack. I feel like a G17 sized gun with flush fit mags could hold 5 or more rounds of ammo.

Its a cartridge with expanding projectiles designed on computers and 50-60 years of expanding projectile knowledge. As such the projectiles seem to perform well, terminally speaking. Without digging, I recall some ballistic gelatin tests that show .50 RD and 14" of penetration. A good 9mm is in the .60-.66 arena with similar penetration.

I think it could make for a legitimate gamer pistol cartridge (assuming its allowed by the lame governing bodies), in addition to being a legitimate defensive cartridge. The high PSI of the cartridge will be able to utilize compensators well.

The price seems to have come down substantially, at least in my portion of Texas. I have seen ammo for sale cheaper than .380 in both FMJ and Federal HST. Is that because it is truly cheaper or because Federal is pushing it hard, I dont know. A little of Column A, a little of Column B.


Editted to Add:

quote:

Originally posted by Delta-3:
From what I gather, it's priced about like .380, so mostly affordable. Ballistically it leaves .380 in the dust. Compares favorably with 9mm albeit with a slightly smaller, lighter bullet & gives about 20% more capacity for the same size.
IMO, it's a fantastic cartridge but lack of different guns to chamber it are holding it back. I don't know if in todays world it can hold on long enough to really catch on.
It nips at the 9mm heels (but will never replace it, nor was it intended to but it can render 380 all but obsolete if given the chance).

All of this

How does it compare with the 327 Federal Magnum? Not wanting to derail, but I have been curious.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
How does it compare with the 327 Federal Magnum? Not wanting to derail, but I have been curious.

Both use a 100 grain .312 bullet, but .327 has higher velocity/energy:

.30 Super Carry = ~1250 FPS and ~350 ft-lbs
.327 Federal Magnum = ~1400 FPS and ~430 ft-lbs.

I think it’s a great caliber. And I think it’s aptly named because concealed-carry pistols are going to be the caliber’s main market if it ever gains a lot of traction and explodes in popularity.

Outside of concealed-carry pistols, it’s not very compelling (IMO). The staggering ubiquity of 9mm outweighs the main advantage of 30 SC (higher capacity), especially in service-size pistols that have high magazine capacities anyway.

One could even make a similar argument against 357 SIG, which is (IMO) the greatest pistol caliber ever made and (until the arrival of 30 SC) was the only “real” threat to 9mm. But again, the staggering ubiquity of 9mm outweighed the ever-decreasing performance advantage of 357 SIG, especially in pistols whose Wonder Nine magazines have significantly reduced capacities while packing 357 SIG.

I think it would make a great PCC cartridge.

Just like in the rifle world, may have fine performance, but hard to establish a solid position. I don’t have one, haven’t come close to considering one. I’m also no stranger to rare cartridges.

If one wants to jump onboard, certainly doable. I went elk hunting a few years ago, a small part of my handgun selection included matching the chambering of my partner. This was for CC then packing out 2 elk, ended with the 40 S&W.

The 25 WSSM has great ballistics, not common now. I think the 224 Valkyrie is headed that direction.

I may be showing some age, one of my favorites for versatility is a lighter to medium weight 357 revolver. Especially with handloading, one can go from snake shot & light 38 loads, mid to higher 357 mag loads.

I remember articles about how we in the USA haven’t embraced metric cartridges, 6.5x55, etc.. The thing is, if one has a 308, 30-06, & 243 in the safe, how high of need is there for the great 6.5 Swede?

I like the round. I think they did a poor job of marketing it. Most of the internet videos are saying it recoils like a 9mm. It is loud and abrupt, but mild, with less muzzle rise. It would really come in to its own if you put it in a subcompact. Would be a great round for those with less strength, and recoil tolerance. If there were more options other than S&W and Federal it would likely become more popular.

It sounds like one of those inventions that will never fully be accepted by the general gun buying public. Yes, the experienced shooters here that have the resources to invest in another gun of a different caliber can well speak of its advantages... but if I was running a gun store and a person walks in just looking for a defensive handgun I for sure would not suggest it... you would have to walk in and ask for a gun in that caliber specifically.

Pretty close in performance to the old .30 Luger, but with modern bullets.

9X17 shoots a 95 gr bullet at over 1,000 FPS.
9X19 shoots a 115 gr bullet at over 1100 FPS.
.357 Sig shoots a 125 gr bullet at over 1450 FPS.

Take your pick, depending on what you need at the moment. The 9X17 has historically been a woman's gun, it being easier to cock and shoot. This is especially true of the newer 9X17's as they are locked-breech design, so much lower effort to pull back the slide.

I have long felt the 9X19 is over-hyped and marginal as a defensive round for routine use. Its occasional chambering in small frames can be useful.

For my money, .357 Sig is THE defensive round to carry if you can. It is a bottle-neck cartridge, so will feed more reliably in an auto, if hits with .357 Mag impact, which is better than .40 S&W, but has less recoil (by a little).

.38 Super and 9X23 would be alternative rounds to consider, though one would most likely have to hand load those.

No where in there do I see a rational reason for 30 SC. ?Fun calibre - sort of like the 5.7 - sure. But to muscle in on the above choices isn't likely, nor even very beneficial.

quote:

9X17 has historically been a woman's gun, it being easier to cock and shoot.

Assuming you meant to type .380ACP maybe the P365 but the vast majority have been historically blowback and very hard to cock and load.

Historically this caliber has also been a military and police cartridge (including official issue to USA general officers) despite the historical lack of policewomen or general officers.

-- Chuck

I really like the 327 Federal Magnum. I had a custom S&W made up in this cartridge. It it were between the 380 and a 30SC, it's the SC all day. If a P226/P229/P365 version came out, I'd certain adopt one.

There are a lot of great cartridges out there that get no attention. The 357 Sig is a great cartridge. If you like that, try the 9x25 Dillon - a big step up. I've got a barrel for my G40. The 7.5FK is also a serious cartridge that never really took off but it's my hunting round. Basically, a necked down .30 10mm maximum. It's worth exploring these rounds when you tire of the 9mm sameness.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck s:

quote:

9X17 has historically been a woman's gun, it being easier to cock and shoot.

Assuming you meant to type .380ACP maybe the P365 but the vast majority have been historically blowback and very hard to cock and load.

Historically this caliber has also been a military and police cartridge (including official issue to USA general officers) despite the historical lack of policewomen or general officers.

-- Chuck

I have always understood 9X17 and .380 ACP are one and the same, just one is American notation and the other European. Just like 9MM vs 9X19. There can be more ammo type selection in 9X19 as that was the military designation.

"Official issue" to GO's was normally a troop-'n -stomp thing, meant for show, not combat.

Historically you are correct most 9X17 pistols were blowback, but that has now changed, with most of the new ones being locked breech. Check out the Glock 42 and Ruger LC, which kind of started the parade. Now, shooting a 95 gr bullet in excess of 1050 FPS, you DO have a real defensive firearm calibre. And that kind of makes this whole 30SC irrelevant (IMO).

quote:

Originally posted by Devereaux:

quote:

Originally posted by chuck s:

quote:

9X17 has historically been a woman's gun, it being easier to cock and shoot.

Assuming you meant to type .380ACP maybe the P365 but the vast majority have been historically blowback and very hard to cock and load.

Historically this caliber has also been a military and police cartridge (including official issue to USA general officers) despite the historical lack of policewomen or general officers.

-- Chuck

I have always understood 9X17 and .380 ACP are one and the same, just one is American notation and the other European. Just like 9MM vs 9X19. There can be more ammo type selection in 9X19 as that was the military designation.

"Official issue" to GO's was normally a troop-'n -stomp thing, meant for show, not combat.

Historically you are correct most 9X17 pistols were blowback, but that has now changed, with most of the new ones being locked breech. Check out the Glock 42 and Ruger LC, which kind of started the parade. Now, shooting a 95 gr bullet in excess of 1050 FPS, you DO have a real defensive firearm calibre. And that kind of makes this whole 30SC irrelevant (IMO).

You are correct that the metric dimensions of .380 ACP are 9x17 mm but I’m not certain that was ever actually an official name. Even CIP only lists .380 Auto(matic), .380 ACP, 9mm Browning court (kurz, corto, short), and 9mm kurz (German only, no “Browning” moniker). I’ve seen guns marked with those, but never 9x17 or similar. As opposed to 9mm Para(bellum), which is also listed as 9mm Luger and 9x19 (mm).

I personally think 30 super carry is a solution to a question no one was asking.

I wonder...like 357SIG who knows if ammo makers will support it later....or if it will be $50 a box.

(Capitalism logic says they should jack the prices up when it becomes a niche item with some users)

Also, so many 9mm's in the past, what about 9mm Police (9x18mm), 9mm Largo (9x23mm) and 38 Super and 357SIG, 9mm Makarov

I actually bought a 9mm Largo EAA gun as recent as the mid 2010's.


I really like 357SIG....I just don't like the price of the ammo anymore.

My forever carry has basically been my Glock 32 from early 2000's - now.

It is of course chambered in 357SIG/ .40S&W (.40 w/Glock 23 OEM Barrel).

Nowadays I'm mostly shooting .40 from it or even 9mm with a conversion barrel because of ammo prices.

9mm - I've always preferred high pressure loads like the various 115 gr +P+ orignally, then Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+, and more recently Speer/Federal 124 +P or Hornady 124 gr +P or Hornady 135 Gr +P.

I wouldn't call 9mm Luger/9x19/9mm Parabellum a minimally defensive load at this point.

9mm Luger with current technology is as good any other major pistol cartridge for self-defense.

I do believe 357SIG/40 S&W/45 either have better penetration or expand better than 9mm, or both.

I consider 357SIG/.40/.45 ACP as major competitors to 9mm, + of course there are other stronger calibers such as 10mm, 44 magnum etc).

The ammo price of 9mm lends itself to allowing more live fire practice.

While I choose for myself .40/.357, I don't think what I carry/do is best practice, also I don't have a micro red dot on my CCW.....

Below is an article on the 9mm Police caliber, interestingly it was made kind of similarly to how this 30 super carry was designed, to fit in 380 guns but be higher power.

https://brassfetcher.com/Handg...ce/9mm%20Police.html

In keeping with the vibe of the thread.....
Is it OK if going forward we just call 9mm Parabellum like .35acp ?