Just curious.. Does anyone have any strong opinions about this ammo? Anyone ever experience any feed issues? Are there any calibers in which it makes more sense than others? What about the red rubber tips.. Do they actually do anything, or are there trade-offs to not having a hollow-point.

I have this--and have used it--for years in 9mm, .380ACP, and .223, but I'm wondering whether it is worth expanding my supply and adding some calibers.

It's what stays loaded in my P11. The sharper angle on the bullet seems to feed better than something like a Hydrashok with a flatter side profile & bigger 'mouth'.

No comment on the polymer tips.

I like it and the concept.

It's always shot pretty straight and true for me.

This is what I have read and heard:
The red tip is there to help in penetration and expansion. Traditional hollow points can clog with fabric, which may deter expansion, or expand too soon and reduce penetration.

I have several calibers in Critical Defense because it conceptually seems sensible to me.

For what I am hearing it does so-so in the human body. With so many other proven rounds out there like the HST and Gold Dot, I can't find a reason to buy or use it on a maybe. The HST and Gold Dot are pretty much the gold standard

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
For what I am hearing it does so-so in the human body. With so many other proven rounds out there like the HST and Gold Dot, I can't find a reason to buy or use it on a maybe. The HST and Gold Dot are pretty much the gold standard

This ^^^
People like the Hornady, but HST and Gold Dot are King of the Mountain.

LUCKY GUNNER TEST DATA HERE
https://www.luckygunner.com/la...ballistic-tests/#9mm

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DirectDrive, May 11, 2020 07:53 PM

Related: https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/4150014354

I would do some reading on Critical Duty versus Critical Defense. Critical Duty appears to be a superior performer.

My experience with the bullet is limited, but I did see a test of a 9mm Critical Duty load that Hornady put on for several law enforcement agencies a few years ago. The target was a bare (no cloth covering) block of “calibrated” ordnance gelatin. The first shot failed to expand, traveled through the 16 inch block, and bounced off a retaining wall. It looked like it could have been reloaded and fired again. The bullet from the second shot expanded nicely and could have been featured in factory advertising.

Did that two-sample test prove anything? Yes, it demonstrated that the CD bullets didn’t always expand. Anything else? No, but as mentioned by others, there are alternatives that have been thoroughly tested through cloth barriers.

In addition, I’ve always been curious about the idea of plugging the hollow point. As mentioned, with a polymer plug there nothing else like clothing cloth can plug it and possibly interfere with expansion. Years ago someone did some experiments with plugging hollow points with some substance (wax?), and as I recall it was concluded that the filler wasn’t a good idea. That test was probably not very scientific either, so ….

Ditto what Jones said. HST or Gold Dot for me. Lucky gunner has a great chart on their website. It has velocities that they got with a chrono (not the BS the factory prints on the box) and penetration depth into ballistics gel. They also have pics of the expanded rounds and diameter measurements of the expansion.

It certainly isn’t the be all end all, but it’s good information imo. Gel isn’t an attacker, but it’s all we have to look at. I went with HST after studying that chart and other info on the web and never looked back.

look at ballistics test at luckygunner.com. Does quite well in 380 but limited expansion in 9 and above (though apparently it was designed to expand approx 50%).

It looks good on paper. Testing shows consistent expansion and penetration. Critical duty looks better but it would depend on it's use (HD vs LE). I'm a Winchester T series fan. Most of the HST looks good. Not to throw a grenade but Gold Dot is old technology.

If you carry in NJ it is one of only a few defensive rounds that you can legally carry.

Failed to expand in my backyard ballistic test. Gold Dots for me. Got a video somewhere, I’ll post the link if I remember.


ETA:
https://youtu.be/3UnOSut1B6I

I'm an HST/Gold Dot/Gold dot 2 guy myself.

The rubber insert is supposed to prevent the cavity from filling with material. That can cause JHPs to act like FMJs. The older JHPs where more susceptible to it then the modern ones.

From what I've seen with the ammo shortages, The hornady defensive ammo seems to be available when others aren't or it sell out last. Thats neither good nor bad and it could be local to where I am.

I'd recommend contacting hornady and see if they have FBI ballistic test data on the loading you are interested in and if they tested with your barrel length. Lucky Gunner is good, but they may not have the info you need.

The other question you have to ask, if you know where it impacts and that it reliable in your pistol, do you actually gain much by moving away from it?

The only Critical Defense load I use is the 110gr .38 FTX. And only in my LCR. Several tests (including Lucky Gunner) showed it performed well in snubs.
HST or Gold Dot in everything else.

About the only reason you’d pick Critical Defense over most modern day hollow points is if you have a 2 or 3 in gun barrel. This was designed more for CCW Mouse Guns while Critical Duty was more for longer barreled duty sized guns.

I’m sticking with Ranger T or HST. I want larger expansion than any Hornady JHP can/will manage.

A bunch of guys working in our shop love the stuff. I stick with HSTs. I had a problem getting it to chamber in my old XD-S 9mm off of a fully loaded 7rd magazine. First round slams into the feed ramp, stops up the gun immediately before anything has a chance to begin. Did it with the second mag as well. Load down one cartridge and hey, no further problem chambering. Fuming with extreme prejudice. Gold Dots and HSTs in same gun, again fully topped mag...no repeat of said problem. Fuming needle is pegged.

That experience soured me on the ammo, particularly in 9mm. Hadn't previously experienced any issue with 9mm CDs in any of my other guns that I used it in, only the XD-S. So now it couldn't be considered a no-brainer 'universal' round; I'd have to THINK about what I can choose to use in that ONE solitary gun. Great, considering that at the time I had about 600 rounds of the stuff still in boxes, plus a bunch loaded up in various G19 and G17 mags. This issue was not acceptable to me, so Hor CD got replaced with Fed HST and over time most of the remaining HCDs rounds has been slowly shot off on the range; only a couple of 25cts left, last I checked. Ultimately that Springfield as well went away, but the memory lingers regardless.

quote:

Originally posted by 10round:
Not to throw a grenade but Gold Dot is old technology.

And ... the 1911 design dates from when?
How about the Glock? Not quite as old technology, but more than a quarter of adults in the U.S. weren’t even born or were infants in 1982. It’s still one of the most popular handguns in America and although there are better guns today (IMO, of course), it’s still a good gun and always will be.

Often new technology is better, but not always. Technology isn’t like milk that turns bad sooner or later; whatever performance it was capable of at the beginning will still be there later.

But I’m surprised that none of the “all handgun bullets and cartridges perform the same” crowd has yet chimed in. That’s the group that says there’s no difference among various cartridges, bullets, and loads when it comes to their effects on human targets. This is where someone should be saying, “The bad guy won’t know if he’s shot with a 115 grain FMJ bullet at 1100 fps or a 125 grain expanding bullet at 1450 fps.”

quote:

Originally posted by whisky22:
look at ballistics test at luckygunner.com. Does quite well in 380 but limited expansion in 9 and above (though apparently it was designed to expand approx 50%).

This is what I understand as well. It’s why I use this in .380 but HST in 9mm.