quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:
7+1 .380 most of the time in light clothing months. 6+1 9mm in heavier clothing months. No spare mags. I don't see a need to carry more in my state where I am surrounded by CCW (since no license required in Idaho).

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read, not just on this forum, but all of the Internet.

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:
7+1 .380 most of the time in light clothing months. 6+1 9mm in heavier clothing months. No spare mags. I don't see a need to carry more in my state where I am surrounded by CCW (since no license required in Idaho).

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read, not just on this forum, but all of the Internet.

Ever since CCW has been available without license in Idaho, CCW has simply exploded in numbers (at least in Boise area). Yes, I feel less need to carry an arsenal when surrounded by (which I literally am) by so many other law abiding Idaho citizens carrying CCW. Just like if I were standing inside the police station (or possibly a Sigforum get-together held in Idaho), I wouldn't feel the need to be heavily armed at all because of the density of firearms around me. In fact there is even a bill being pushed through that will allow 18-21 year old carry unlicensed CCW in all Idaho cities, which they currently are not able to (can only CCW if under 21 outside of cities). Not requiring a permit makes it an easy choice to CCW for everyone. Unlike others in less free states (like you), I don't live day to day fearing for my life and feel I need to carry enough ammo to shoot it out with the hordes of zombies, criminal gang members, or whatever. I only carry enough to either get me to a safe distance or a small "chance" to stop a fight if my luck is so bad that it's shoot or die time. I live in a free state where likely a good percentage of the people around me in public (even in more liberal Boise) are likely armed which lessens my need to make up for for any perceived ammo deficiency against some random criminal shooter. I am not a cop, it's not my job to shoot it out with bad guys.

Do you even CCW? I noticed you didn't state the amount of ammo you carry in this thread, while you sure managed to throw in your two cents about how superior you are. I'm sure your vast experience in gunfight data and superior intelligence has shown how effective carrying an extra XX number or mags/rounds has been? Right?

The studies I have heard/read about place the average number of shots fired in actual "civilian" gunfire exchanges is "2". Other studies give the number of shots fired by actual "police" in gunfights is only 3-4 rounds fired in any gunfight. Sure there are always statistical outliers. There will always be incidents where many mags are dumped, however, you as a civilian are more likely to die in a car accident than get shot or shoot at another in one of these multi mag dump gunfights. There are also people who win the lottery too... Yes, there was a bad guy in Vegas who dumped a a bunch of mags and killed a lot of people. That was a statistical outlier. And if you were one of the people in the crowd, no amount of bullets on you would have helped when you don't know where or can't return fire.

My primary tool is my brain, that reduces my chances of being at the wrong place at the wrong time when I use it properly and I'm on the good side of Lady Luck. If bad luck or fate says otherwise and I am forced into the wrong place wrong time, then my next tool is my legs, which will hopefully get me to a safe distance fast. If bad luck says even my legs aren't fast enough to get far enough away, then I have my CCW pistol with 7-8 rounds. If my luck is still so bad that at this point, my 7-8 rounds is not enough and I still haven't gotten far enough away, then Lady luck really has it out for me, and having several more mags worth of bullets is unlikely to help any since my luck has completely ran out already. US society (even in shitty ghetto urban areas in Chicago) is not so bad that a normal armed civilian's statistical chances of getting into actual gun fight (much less an extended multi-magazine dump gunfight) are beyond next to zero.

If it makes you feel safer, than go ahead and carry all the backup mags and guns you want. It's cool with me. I'm not the one who has to carry it. I do understand the justification and emotion to want to carry more ammo JUST IN CASE, but the statistics simply don't back up the diminishing returns on more ammo.. One can't logically claim to say that playing the scratch off cards and lotteries is a suckers bet then ignore the even lower statistical chances of needing multiple reloads for a random civilian gunfight. More power to you though. Perhaps instead of smug asshole comments, you can expand upon how superior or special the knowledge you have is.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I understand and agree with what you are saying Xero. I'm going to Washington DC in a few weeks for the annual Police Week. Because I'm surrounded by other cops who all have guns, I don't even take one.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I understand and agree with what you are saying Xero. I'm going to Washington DC in a few weeks for the annual Police Week. Because I'm surrounded by other cops who all have guns, I don't even take one.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I understand and agree with what you are saying Xero. I'm going to Washington DC in a few weeks for the annual Police Week. Because I'm surrounded by other cops who all have guns, I don't even take one.

Oh, and I take back what I said earlier about your post being quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on the Internet. Apparently someone took that as a challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I understand and agree with what you are saying Xero. I'm going to Washington DC in a few weeks for the annual Police Week. Because I'm surrounded by other cops who all have guns, I don't even take one.

Oh, and I take back what I said earlier about your post being quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on the Internet. Apparently someone took that as a challenge.

No contribution to thread, no actual argument. Must be a fully loaded tactical mall ninja.

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I understand and agree with what you are saying Xero. I'm going to Washington DC in a few weeks for the annual Police Week. Because I'm surrounded by other cops who all have guns, I don't even take one.

Oh, and I take back what I said earlier about your post being quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on the Internet. Apparently someone took that as a challenge.

No contribution to thread, no actual argument. Must be a fully loaded tactical mall ninja.

quote:

Originally posted by GregY:

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I understand and agree with what you are saying Xero. I'm going to Washington DC in a few weeks for the annual Police Week. Because I'm surrounded by other cops who all have guns, I don't even take one.

Oh, and I take back what I said earlier about your post being quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on the Internet. Apparently someone took that as a challenge.

No contribution to thread, no actual argument. Must be a fully loaded tactical mall ninja.

He's being an abrasive jerk, but there is a valid argument inside the jerkiness.

Do you vaccinate your kids, or count on the herd immunity provided by all the other vaccinated kids around them to keep them from being exposed to disease?

Not carrying because you count on the other cc'ers around you to provide herd immunity (at least deterrence, if not actually direct intervention if you're attacked) is almost like not vaccinating your kids. Far from a perfect analogy, but if it gets your attention it's working.

It's a form of free riding. Enjoying the benefits provided by the efforts of others without contributing anything yourself.

Carrying or not carrying is a decision every competent adult must make, but bragging that you free ride is kind of lame.

Does that help?

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by GregY:

quote:

Originally posted by Xer0:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I understand and agree with what you are saying Xero. I'm going to Washington DC in a few weeks for the annual Police Week. Because I'm surrounded by other cops who all have guns, I don't even take one.

Oh, and I take back what I said earlier about your post being quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on the Internet. Apparently someone took that as a challenge.

No contribution to thread, no actual argument. Must be a fully loaded tactical mall ninja.

He's being an abrasive jerk, but there is a valid argument inside the jerkiness.

Do you vaccinate your kids, or count on the herd immunity provided by all the other vaccinated kids around them to keep them from being exposed to disease?

Not carrying because you count on the other cc'ers around you to provide herd immunity (at least deterrence, if not actually direct intervention if you're attacked) is almost like not vaccinating your kids. Far from a perfect analogy, but if it gets your attention it's working.

It's a form of free riding. Enjoying the benefits provided by the efforts of others without contributing anything yourself.

Carrying or not carrying is a decision every competent adult must make, but bragging that you free ride is kind of lame.

Does that help?

Well, apparently me only carrying 7-8 rounds in my CCW pistol somehow equates to not carrying at all. No where did I say I didn't CCW and depend on others. I only said, that when many other law abiding people are also carrying, I don't need to carry a whole lot of extra ammo for reloads.

Your vaccine analogy makes no sense at all. I carry a CCW, so according to your analogy, I've been vaccinated, but now carrying it further, I'm not sure if you are implying I'm supposed to be the bad person because I don't keep or take even more vaccinations (more spare ammo and magazines) and depend on others??

Either way, lets get down to numbers, that no one like to actually talk about. At least for me, the numbers look like this: City of Boise published 2016 crime stats puts violent crime (all types) at 2.7 incidents per 1000 citizens. That means right off the bat, there is only a 0.27% chance for normal citizen to be involved in a violent crime, and more likely less because violent crime tends to be mostly perpetuated within a smaller segment and or locations that more law-abiding people avoid. But in this case we'll go with a full 0.27% chance for every citizen. Now of all this violent crime in Boise, only a small percentage of it actually involves guns. An even tinier percentage of the incidents involving guns with two-party shootouts NOT involving police shrinks this down yet more. Also then take into account that of these near-nonexistant civilian "shootouts" that involve MORE than the average of "2" rounds being shot, and the overwhelming "just in case" reasons for carrying extra mags as a civilian in Boise is damn near ZERO percent.

Again, I understand the "better to have and not need" emotion, but realistically and statistically (at least for me in Boise), the gun and one mag is plenty for the near-zero chance I'll ever need more than the single mag's worth of ammo, and not "need to depend on anyone else" as you and others like to imply.