Not only does the 320 have issues about going off by itself video's on YouTube some even in a holster but even my State police dropped it for poor quality. They went from p220 to glock. Guess the older ones are the best

What happened with the P320 is still up for debate. In my mind its potential failings are not about build quality, but about design choices regarding the trigger configuration that SIG made early and decided to go with. IF SIG is paying a price now, it's all due to those decisions that they chose to follow, and apparently with holster manufacturers (namely Safariland, I'd say) that somehow can't create designs that can guarantee that the P320 trigger as designed and made won't be inadvertently engaged at some point.

There are plenty of threads already on these topics, there is no problem with current Sig quality.

I love it when people post about what's going on where they are, without being willing to share where they are. This thread has the bonus of being based on conjecture though...

Police and military procurement decisions unfortunately have a lot more to do with politics and price than quality. Police duty requirements also differ somewhat from what might be the best choice for an individual.

The beauty of being a private citizen is that you DO get to make your own decisions about what you carry. Try it for yourself, decide what you like, and carry what you want. Don't limit yourself because of some corporate decision made for other people.

Not a quality issue, they are producing a product that works while keeping the cost down so they can sell it. Look at the classic Sigs, the ones that put their name on the "Hell and back reliability".
Just hold an original P220, and then a new one. There is just something about the classics, I would say "refined", but there may be a better word for it. The new stuff still works, they can not produce the "refined" feel and keep it affordable.
This is just my opinion, I'm sure there are some that will disagree but that is my take on it.

quote:

Originally posted by rizzle:
Not a quality issue, they are producing a product that works while keeping the cost down so they can sell it. Look at the classic Sigs, the ones that put their name on the "Hell and back reliability".
Just hold an original P220, and then a new one. There is just something about the classics, I would say "refined", but there may be a better word for it. The new stuff still works, they can not produce the "refined" feel and keep it affordable.
This is just my opinion, I'm sure there are some that will disagree but that is my take on it.

this 100%

quote:

Originally posted by nepatriot:
Not only does the 320 have issues about going off by itself video's on YouTube some even in a holster but even my State police dropped it for poor quality. They went from p220 to glock. Guess the older ones are the best

What state Police Dropped the 320?

I have owned dozens of Sigs over the years, spanning different eras of manufacturing. The classic stamped Sigs are some of my favorites. I also think stainless slide p series Sigs are excellent pistols. I don't have any experience with the 320 or 365 to date, but every single other SIG pistol I have owned has been absolutely gtg.

If your state police are dropping P220 for Glock I’d bet it’s a 9mm Glock? Cheaper to buy, cheaper to feed, lighter to carry around all day, and easier for cops to shoot well. Doubt it was based on the quality of the P220.

Must be talking about CT State Police.
They just swapped their over 10yr old 220's for Glock model 45's.

One thing to keep in mind is that the quality of teaching at Engineering schools has dropped a lot. Because the students get more classroom hours on Diversity and inclusion crap than actual Science. The end result is that the designs I see coming out of Ford, GM, and Chrysler is beyond poor, I am seeing product designs that cannot actually be manufactured. At present I think Ford is by far the worst and I can guarantee you that I will never ever purchased an electric vehicle made by Ford. Because the "engineering" is so damned poor at Ford that I don't think they are capable of actually making a golf cart that actually is reliable.

quote:

Originally posted by mike56:
Must be talking about CT State Police.
They just swapped their over 10yr old 220's for Glock model 45's.

So in all likelihood this 'may' have NOTHING to do with 'quality' if they trading in 10 YO pistols after all. Firearm mfrs. offer sweetheart deals to convert an LE agency to their brand all the time. They'll practically give the new pistols away, and get a distributor involved to they buy back the old pistols, while offering new holsters at a ridiculous price as part of the deal. Of course this assumes we are actually talking about CT, but who knows...

I think QC issues are the nature of the beast when a company goes from a “fairly small” fairly targeted to professional users entity to a huge company trying to have a product for everybody as well as innovate in the process.

Glock might sell eleventy billion pistols but they are basically the same pistol as they were selling in 1984 so not a lot of gotchas or unknowns at play.

SIG throws a lot of new stuff at the wall to see what sticks so lots of unknowns at play.

Neither is ultimately a bad thing holistically and both methodologies have merit especially in the firearms market.

I do personally think SIG QC has dropped since the days before Ron Cohen though and I would like them to focus more on refining a simpler product catalog then adding Rose colored accents or gold plated barrels or tiny variations to everything.

P320 and the issues reported, of which, other than the early drop issue which was solved, haven't all been shown to be user inflicted?

But as was said earlier, Glock probably gave them a sweetheart deal, and the current staff at the agency may be Glockophiles, 10 years ago the brass may have been Sig people, since if CT, Sig is hq nearby.

quote:

P320 and the issues reported, of which, other than the early drop issue which was solved, haven't all been shown to be user inflicted?

While I agree it seems every instance is a user induced issue, it does seem that the overall design makes it less forgiving to missteps and that might not be the best thing for a large user base many of which are non gun people.

I am surprised that SIG never released their tabbed “dingus” trigger and I am surprised they don’t make it an option now. I realize some of that might be some kind of fear of tacitly admitting some kind of error but I almost think it would make for a nice option and I am sure some kind of marketing could be done to differentiate it as the “hard use” model or some such.

quote:

Originally posted by mike56:
They just swapped their over 10yr old 220's

That means most of them are ready for their first cleaning.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

P320 and the issues reported, of which, other than the early drop issue which was solved, haven't all been shown to be user inflicted?

While I agree it seems every instance is a user induced issue, it does seem that the overall design makes it less forgiving to missteps and that might not be the best thing for a large user base many of which are non gun people.

I am surprised that SIG never released their tabbed “dingus” trigger and I am surprised they don’t make it an option now. I realize some of that might be some kind of fear of tacitly admitting some kind of error but I almost think it would make for a nice option and I am sure some kind of marketing could be done to differentiate it as the “hard use” model or some such.

It would be easier (and smarter!) for SIG to simply offer the Manual Safety version of the P320 for LE, as well as the commercial market for those that prefer one. They already have the product/design, which they are currently producing and selling to the .mil in the M17 & M18 anyway.

I thought the same about the safety but that would require a fair bit of re-training vs adding just a tiny bit of extra “Murphy space” with the dingus without needing any retraining.

It’s all academic really and I tend to fall on the end of the spectrum where admin gun handling is far more likely then gunfighting (thank Christ and may it ever be so for me) so I am willing to give up a super nice trigger pull for some added safety headroom. I know, I know TRAINING!!! But I am not an operator nor am I infallible so I like a little more weight to my trigger on defensive firearms. A little bit of age and experience has taught me that infallible thing. .

That’s all personal pref for me and not a sermon for thee in anyway.

Ron Cohen