quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

This is not entirely true. Hawes was importing the P220 in .45 ACP, 9x19mm and .38 Super and the P230 as well, and doing so at the very same time as Browning was importing the BDA.

Hawes also imported JP Sauer revolvers in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. These are well made revolvers that go relatively unnoticed.

Welcome to SIGforum and thank you for the pics. That is a magnificent weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Is it just me, or does the slide flat looks partially polished?

Its slide flats were high gloss polished, same for the muzzle end of its barrel and, the grips had high gloss black which was probably molded in. They wore the Browning name. I had a HH in 9mm which I didnt fire. Only ever opened the slide twice.

quote:

Originally posted by hjs157:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
BTW, here's my BDA in .38 Super. Take a look. You may find something odd. All serial numbers match- frame, slide, and barrel.

Indeed. SIG Sauer serialization - not the more familiar Browning format.

Can you please expand on this with the 2 formats ? I think Para is referring to the serial down the grip frame front area correct ? I believe the early EU P220s were marked the same.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Pop Quiz- and this will surprise some people:

The oft-quoted production numbers of the BDA- approximately 10,000 in .45 ACP, approximately 2700 in 9x19mm, approximately 800 in .38 Super- from which publication did these figures come, and when? The surprising part is the 'when'.

Noone bit yet and I am waiting to read the answer. I sure dont know. Para, can you please post the open slide photo of your 7.65 model P220 ?

I don't have a photo of it with the slide locked back.

It is fine. Thank you. Saw a pic or two here last year and it has such a unique barrel profile.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
Can you please expand on this with the 2 formats ? I think Para is referring to the serial down the grip frame front area correct ? I believe the early EU P220s were marked the same.

Until recently, the SIG Sauer P220 serial number format was G 1xx xxx - beginning with serial number G 100 001. Browning BDA's however were typically serialized using a unique Browning serial number format - e.g., 375RR1234. The first three numerals identify the model/caliber, followed by a two letter date code and finally four unique sequential numerics. The Skipper's Super 38 BDA clearly utilizes the SIG Sauer format (G 106 02x). Like most early P220's, BDA's were serialized on the receiver front strap, slide and barrel. (Note - not all Euro release P220's were serialized on the front strap - later examples were serialized on the right side of the receiver.) BDA's also received Kiel Proof House stamps on the slide chin in traditional SIG Sauer fashion. Interestingly, I have examined BDA pistols where the Browning date code does not match the Kiel proof date. As an aside, early Hawes imported P220 pistols were not stamped with matching serial numbers on the slide.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Pop Quiz- and this will surprise some people:

The oft-quoted production numbers of the BDA- approximately 10,000 in .45 ACP, approximately 2700 in 9x19mm, approximately 800 in .38 Super- from which publication did these figures come, and when? The surprising part is the 'when'.

Going from memory, I recall these production totals being cited in the Blue Book of Gun Values.

hjs157, thank you for the great information on the serial # format. I would not have known this in a million years. That Browning date code in the serial # is quite interesting. Same for the caliber.

Hjs157, how does the Browning date code work? I can't seem to figure it out from the serial number list here.

quote:

Originally posted by wgsigs:
Hjs157, how does the Browning date code work? I can't seem to figure it out from the serial number list here.

The Browning BDA serial number format is as follows:

Prefix
345-9mm, 375-Super 38, 395-45 auto

Date Code
Z=1
Y=2
X=3
W=4
V=5
T=6
R=7
P=8
N=9
M=0

Here's the BDA list redone with the correct Browning code.

Browning BDA

-345RT-1124-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to reganhouse
-345RT-1223-HH-1977-9mm = seen by udo on GB
-345RT-1292-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to reganhouse
-345RT-1606-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to blindref
-345RT-1728-HH-1977-9mm
-345RT-18XX-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to roberth


-345RR-1101-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to Buster30290
-345RR-1494-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to Orthogonal
-345RR-2599-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to MusProd
-345RR-1940-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to David Lee
-345RR-2599-HH-1977-9mm = Thanks to MusProd
-345RR-2613-XX-19XX-9mm = seen by udo on GB

-375RR-1063-HH-1977-38super
-375RR-1310-HH-1977-38super = Thanks to cherokee2u
-375RR-1322-HH-1977-38super = Thanks to reganhouse
-375RR-1723-HH-1977-38super = Thanks to Buster30290

-395RR-3006-HH-1977-45acp = Thanks to reganhouse
-395RR-4193-HJ-1978 -45acp = Thanks to Noah Zark
-395RR-4329-HJ-1978-45acp = Thanks to David Lee

-395RP-1414-HJ-1978-45acp = Thanks to prowen
-395RP-15XX-HJ-1978-45acp = roberth
-395RP-2408-HJ-1978-45acp = seen by udo on GB
-395RP-2541-HJ-1978-45acp = Thanks to David Lee
-395RP-4482-HJ-1978-45acp
-395RP-49XX-HJ-1978-45acp = Thanks to sleepla8er
-395RP-5200-HJ-1978-45acp = Thanks to bcsd372

-395RP-6829-HK-1979-45acp = Thanks to Buster30290
-395RP-6903-HK-1979-45acp = Thanks to DucS2R
-395RP-7055-HK-1979-45acp = Thanks to gis

-396RP-7396-JA-1980-7.65 = Thanks to Dusty Dave

Thanks. So the Browning date code is a more accurate indicator of date of manufacture since it is part of the serial number.

I wouldn't categorically say that. It seems to be obvious that Browning was able to determine what they wanted for identification. They may have had reasons for their choice. But, Browning has published their code system for us to examine.
For my purposes, the matched or mismatched dates are noted for everyones consideration and discussion.
I am not a BDA fan. My main interest is where the Browning series fits in with the normal Sauer production. My first goal was to determine when the second style slide (.45) came into being and how long both slides were being produced.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
It is fine. Thank you. Saw a pic or two here last year and it has such a unique barrel profile.

Yup, sure does. Tooky13 has a sweet 9mm. Looking at all these 220s makes me want to buy another... Here are my 7.65s and a .45 for comparison

Can't comment on the value. That is a great find.

That's one helluva first post, and a beautiful pistol. Welcome to SigForum! There's an incredible wealth of knowledge on here (not me) and you'll learn some great stuff; I always do.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
It is fine. Thank you. Saw a pic or two here last year and it has such a unique barrel profile.

Yup, sure does. Tooky13 has a sweet 9mm. Looking at all these 220s makes me want to buy another... Here are my 7.65s and a .45 for comparison

I tried twice to say thank you for posting these and the wifi booted me off line. Great pistols.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
I tried twice to say thank you for posting these and the wifi booted me off line. Great pistols.

I appreciate it. I have a few more P220 pictures (unfortunately some are with no notes taken) that I keep for references.
Here is one of them to illustrate the evolution of the WG P220s. I can't remember if my BDA was lined up for these,
but they are in chronological order if anyone is interested.