I just chatted w/ Brownell's ,
I wanted to drive over , pick up a G17 , and three additional parts for it, and then have them install the parts.

the One stop shopping has an appeal to me.

They only have "gun Tech's" , no actual smiths.

So That kinda sucks.

will keep looking I guess

Um, sights and installing apex stuff does seem more gun tech, than gun smith.

I am (or was) a LE armorer for Remington, S&W, Sig, Glock and H&K. A "gun tech" so to speak. I often was asked if I was a gunsmith. My reply was a gunsmith can make parts for your gun. I can only swap parts.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
I just chatted w/ Brownell's ,
I wanted to drive over , pick up a G17 , and three additional parts for it, and then have them install the parts.

the One stop shopping has an appeal to me.

They only have "gun Tech's" , no actual smiths.

So That kinda sucks.

will keep looking I guess

Glocks are VERY EASY to work on... what do you think you can't do yourself?

Did you ask them if they could perform the work you had in mind? I can't believe they couldn't.

It is incredibly hard for me to imagine a task on a Glock that takes a gunsmith. Maybe cutting/threading a barrel (17L barrel in your 34>? But who would do that in view of the available options. anything in the basic gun is a user serviceable part.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I am (or was) a LE armorer for Remington, S&W, Sig, Glock and H&K. A "gun tech" so to speak. I often was asked if I was a gunsmith. My reply was a gunsmith can make parts for your gun. I can only swap parts.

That sounds like the best explanation I've heard of the 2.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
. . . a gunsmith can make parts for your gun. I can only swap parts.

Well, if you apply the definition from the US Code (although the term gunsmith is not actually used), and what's in the Code of Federal Regulations (where the term gunsmith is used), and various ATF rulings on the subject, swapping parts can certainly meet the definition of working as a gunsmith.

From 18USC921(a)(11)(B), " . . . the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms . . ."

From 27CFR478.11, "Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms."

See also various ATF rulings on specific activities that constitute gunsmithing, including, but not limited to, engraving and refinishing, repairs, etc, with many of those rulings referenced here:
https://www.atf.gov/file/11241/download

So a wide variety of activities involving modifying firearms, including simply "swapping parts," can be considered "gunsmithing." If you are doing any of those in an attempt to make a "profit" you are "engaged in the business of dealing in firearms" (as a gunsmith) and need a Federal Firearms License.

Not sure if the 'smith was the problem.

May have been the lawyers and liabilities?

I am wondering how government regulation and definitions could have anything to do with reality.

Bob

I can't imagine paying for things like that. Part of the fun of owning guns is tinkering with them.

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
I can't imagine paying for things like that. Part of the fun of owning guns is tinkering with them.

This, I am just a YouTube type of guy and Ive changed sights, triggers, strikers, magplates, marine cups and springs on my G19, 42 and 43...It's incredibly easy. The only things I have not tried are milling the slide and stippling the frame.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Not sure if the 'smith was the problem.

May have been the lawyers and liabilities?

This is the likely reason. 'Swapping parts' changes the gun and in turn puts added and often unwanted liability on the shop. If Brownell's business model is rooted as being a retailer, they probably do not want the financial burden of assuming responsibility and fault if something they worked on goes 'boom' instead of 'bang'.

Our shop doesn't work on guns anymore. According to him, the owner wasn't pleased with his insurance rates and now the only thing he'll allow is the changing of sights. Even before the policy change, besides sights we were not allowed to install aftermarket parts into new guns, particularly those brands of guns that we're factory authorized dealers for, including such seemingly trivial things like aftermarket choke tubes. We will sell them, but we won't install them for the customer should the choke tube manufacturer by some quirk get it very wrong. Even installing factory parts was limited to only those pieces that were originally designed and engineered for the the particular model gun; no mods of any sort were approved. We're not even allowed to show a customer how to remove a trigger bar from a Glock if we know the gun's owner is going to install some other part in its place, even if it's just a Gen3 bar into a Gen4. At first I thought that was plain stupid given this age of YouTube, but from a business perspective it makes practical if somewhat paranoid sense.

I heard from a buddy at another shop about a local smith who got things so wrong with a muzzle brake he installed on a 300WIN rifle. An incorrect sized brake was received and installed (7mm) without double-checking the size of the bullet aperture. That first visit to the range was not a good one. The smith ended up having to buy a new rifle from that shop for his customer. And that's exactly the kind of scenario as to why my boss won't allow us to work on guns anymore. Gunsmithing ninjas are far worse than gun counter ninjas.

Its a Glock. Unless you are going to have serious custom work done to it you won't need a fully trained and experienced Gunsmith.

Glock = drop in parts.

I specifically asked "Jill"
If their smiths could install a cominoli or lone wolf manual safety , a Bar-sto barrel and williams fire sights.

she replied that their "techs" do not do any of the above. so I signed off.

I should have asked what their techs actually do . I guess.

Its my understanding ( from the www) that the Bar-sto is not a drop in item ,
oh there are a few people that just dropped theirs in , and were immediately satisfied,but
I don't have that kind of luck.

and I guess I could find someone around here to do the sights , but I have no idea about what is involved in fitting a bar-sto barrel

If you live in Illinois, you could not drive to Brownell's and "pick up" a Glock 17, anyway. You need to transfer through an in-state dealer.

Good explanation by soggy_spinout.

Brownells isn’t a gunsmith, they’re a company that sells stuff. They probably have employees that could do those things (although perhaps not), but what would they get out of it if they agreed? Risk, liability, and if pushed for an explanation, taking business away from the local gunsmiths who are their customers.

They've also only been in the retail business for about a year and the large scale gun sales business (outside of their retail store) for a few months. I used to occasionally drive to their warehouse and place desk orders, but there was no retail showroom. It could be that a house gunsmith to do minor things like sight installs at their retail store is in their future, but they'd really have to see the dollar signs, I'm thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
. . . a gunsmith can make parts for your gun. I can only swap parts.

Well, if you apply the definition from the US Code....

Oh good grief on a crutch. Bendable, do you own a 3/32" punch or Allen wrench, and a small flathead screwdriver? Because if so, the screwdriver is the luxury, here. If you can pump your own gas, or tie your shoes, then everything I've quoted ought to look incredibly ridiculous to you once we've walked you through this. If you can't swap parts on a Glock, then you weren't qualified for much of the life you've already lived well, my good man, and should go ahead and count yourself lucky and continue insisting on someone else doing this one for you. I, for one, happen to think you can handle this.

*Edit- I've been reading your Glock question threads. If you've never owned a Glock before, I can't recommend trying to shoehorn a manual safety into one right from the gate. Try it the way it was designed first before you start chopping on it, you might just find it works alright. Works just fine for millions. Swapping shit around is where Glock neophytes run into malfunctions and write off the gun.